We got the car home yesterday and come to find out the trickle charger will not work unless the outlet in your home is grounded, good safety feature, very bad if you can't charge. We live in an older home in Atlanta that was renovated but apparently they never grounded the outlets, I confirmed. Any ideas on a possible temporary work around, right now we're trying to map out nearby charging stations until we speak to our landlord.
Just bought a LEAF and ran into a serious problem
- Thread starter Batjew
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cgaydos
Well-known member
Batjew said:
Not good news. You're right - you don't want to be charging a LEAF from an ungrounded outlet. And I would caution against doing anything to "trick" the plug into thinking it's grounded since if the wiring is that old it won't be up to modern code and very possibly may not be able to handle the current the LEAF draws - fire could result.
One possibility is to look around the house and see if there is a room that was more recently renovated and has upgraded electrical wiring. In particular look for a kitchen, bath, or other room where water on the floor is possible and find a GFCI outlet (google that term and choose images to see what they look like). I'd suggest getting a circuit tester (you'll see some on the google results) to verify the outlet is good, and then getting an extension cord rated for at least 15 amps - it won't come cheap. But even that is iffy unless your landlord confirms that the new circuitry was inspected and confirmed up to modern electrical code. Otherwise the wiring behind that outlet may just not be able to support that kind of current draw.
adric22
Well-known member
Batjew said:
I can see that would be a serious problem. I would hope that you just go ahead and get a 240V charging station installed. That is the best solution. Maybe while the electrician is out, have him upgrade at least one 120V socket in the garage so that you can use the portable trickle charger in the event your 240V goes down or something.
I would echo what cgaydos said about tricking the EVSE into thinking it is grounded. This is possible, but I wouldn't try it in your circumstance. If the wiring is as old as it sounds, then it probably can't handle the continuous 12 amps needed to run the portable EVSE anyway. Even if it appears to work at first, heat will build up over a period of hours and something will melt or catch fire.
You didn't say what city you live in. I hope it has a good public quick-charge infrastructure that you can use. If you haven't already, you should download the plug-share app or go to http://www.plugshare.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and find the nearest stations.
TimLee
Well-known member
I am sorry that you cannot charge.Batjew said:
The only safe thing to do is work with the landlord to have a properly installed new outlet and cable from the service panel installed.
And it would be safer to put in 240V and either use evseupgrade to modify the 120V EVSE or buy a 240V EVSE.
Like many you also have failed to recognize that the 120V EVSE should only be for limited emergency use.
A restatement of what I have advised many times to others with this question:
Keep in mind that if your circuits do not have separate ground wire that the installation is very old.
I think the change in the code to separate ground wire was sometime in the 1950s or early 1960s.
I have experience from 1970 of attempting to work with the early Romex manufactured in the 1940s and it was an absolute fire hazard disaster in 1970. If the cable in your residence is that old every last piece of it needs to be replaced.
If it is 1950s or early 1960s cable it might be OK, but keep in mind that all plastic materials eventually become brittle. It might still be tolerable, but at some point it will become unsafe and should be replaced.
It would be better, smarter, and safer to go ahead and put in proper new cables for power and not even consider using such old cables for 120V EVSE charging.
A repeat of my input from previous questions on 120 V EVSE use:
Note that Nissan recommends the 120V EVSE for limited emergency use only.
Some people have used it for a long time without problems yet, but in general that is a bad idea unless you have a newly properly installed dedicated circuit with high grade receptacle using properly tightened screw connections.
Previous info from another thread:
How safe 120V charging is depends on how lucky you are.mikelb said:
Very few garages have the correct properly installed high quality single outlet supplied by a single breaker.
Code only allows using 80% of the circuit rating for a long term continuous load.
So on a 15 amp circuit nothing else should be on the same circuit while the car is charging.
And a lot of 120V gets put in poorly using push in connections.
One person had a bad fire most likely from staples that had damaged the cable in the wall.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15784&hilit=+fire#p352567" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
smkettner
Well-known member
Try the kitchen or laundry outlets. Use a new extension cord with #12 wire.Batjew said:
I'm not sure how kosher this is, but you could put in a grounding stake near the fusebox for the garage and have an electrician connect it, grounding the box (unless it is already grounded) and then run one new cable for the car circuit. You really do need new wiring and a new outlet at least for the EVSE.
rogersleaf
Well-known member
While the electrician is looking at the 120v grounding, find out what it would take to bring a 240v line into the garage. It's worth the investment even if your landlord won't pay for it. Your ownership experience will be much better with L2 charging at home.Batjew said:
Nubo
Well-known member
If your landlord has any sense they will seriously consider having the house wiring brought up to code for all outlets. Non-grounded outlets are unsafe and now that they are aware of the condition, if they choose not to correct it they are knowingly placing the occupants at risk.
And whomever installed 3-prong outlets without providing ground, was either ignorant or criminally negligent.
And whomever installed 3-prong outlets without providing ground, was either ignorant or criminally negligent.
many older houses in Atlanta are like this and I think because of the age, they are technically grandfathered, not sure how it works. I'll see about getting a 220. I'm curious, are there other options besides the Nissan L2? I'd like to find the most cost effective option.
Batjew said:
Plenty of them. For cost effectiveness and quality, look at Clipper Creek's 20 amp unit. It's only about $520 shipped.
That's an overstatement. The L-1 unit works fine for home charging as long as it's plugged into a good outlet, with good wiring and no other significant loads, and isn't unplugged/replugged often. I used mine for six months, at least.
rogersleaf
Well-known member
Yes, its a universal SAE charging standard. Several L2 options are available depending on how much amperage @ 240v can be supplied to your garage:Batjew said:
1). The best option would be a full 30 amp line (40 amp breaker). This will support several EVSE's on the market that will fully supply the 6.6 kW max the LEAF can upload (assuming SV/SL model or an S if it has the QC option). I decided on a Clipper Creek HCS-40, but several manufacturers offer similar products at competitive pricing.
2). If the electrical panel can only support a lower amperage line then several lower-powered EVSE's will still work, but will charge slightly slower. If you have a S w/o the QC port, a 20 amp line is all that will be needed for the 3.3 kW charger. An excellent, economical and portable option in this power range is sending your factory cord to evseupgrade. It will be returned at 240v/20 amps with a twist-lock plug that can be easily used with many household 240v plug configurations and still work on 120v by using cord adaptors. I started with the Clipper Creek wall unit and after recovering from the cash crunch of buying the wall unit decided on evseupgrade too. I'm glad to have both options now.
In a rental home, see if local code allows for a 240v power outlet as opposed to a hard-wired install. This allows you to unplug and take the EVSE appliance with you when moving. If so, buy an EVSE that has a cord & plug instead of a hard-wire pig tail.
Batjew: Don't forget that a (VERY preferably dedicated) 20a 240v circuit (using only 12 AWG wire) for a 16a EVSE is all you need to be able to fully charge overnight. This will place minimal additional demand on one's service capacity, plus reducing the chance of problems due to overheated components.
I think the power outlet will be the best option since this is a rental.
I will do my best to get a 220 installed ASAP but I expect it will take some time (I'm going to say 3-4 months). So in the meantime routes will be planned, and we have a public charger AND a quick charger very close to us. This will buy some time until I can purchase and install one in the home. Car got charged yesterday so we're good.
Thank you for all the advice, this is certainly a unique situation.
I will do my best to get a 220 installed ASAP but I expect it will take some time (I'm going to say 3-4 months). So in the meantime routes will be planned, and we have a public charger AND a quick charger very close to us. This will buy some time until I can purchase and install one in the home. Car got charged yesterday so we're good.
Thank you for all the advice, this is certainly a unique situation.
ksnogas2112
Well-known member
Alternate option, get the evse upgraded by engineer and plug in to the dryer outlet if it's an electric dryer and not gas and if it's reasonably close to the vehicle.
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
At least your landlord is willing to work with you on this. Could be worse.
Lots of L2 EVSE to choose from, try a google search.
Check out http://www.plugshare.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for public stations near you.
Lots of L2 EVSE to choose from, try a google search.
Check out http://www.plugshare.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for public stations near you.
gsleaf
Well-known member
If you do use a different plug in the kitchen, etc. Be VERY sure you're not overloading the circuit. If you do you could very easily end up with a fire if the load from the Leaf and everything else on that circuit is too high.
kubel
Well-known member
I bought a foreclosure built in the 1950's and it had 2-prong outlets through almost the entire house. There were a few 3-prong but they were almost all wired incorrectly (some were reverse bootlegged!!!). All of the 2-prong had a ground wire terminating to the metal outlet box. It was a 5 minute job for each outlet- super easy to swap out the 2-prong for 3-prong. Your house may be the same.
cgaydos
Well-known member
kubel said:
Ok, but will the wiring support a steady 12 amp current draw? Even if the wiring does it may go through connectors that can't handle the current.
Many years ago I let a contractor talk me into upgrading our kitchen without getting inspections. One of the new items was a trash compactor - a popular option back in 1993. This drew a lot of current during the 20 second (or so) compacting cycle so required a dedicated circuit, which the electrician provided but he reused an aluminium wiring circuit that came with the house (built in 1969). After a while the house lights began to flicker and dim whenever the trash compactor was running. I knew this was a serious problem since the circuits should have been separate. After some investigation I found a junction box where several circuits all met and then were run to the panel. The wiring for the trash compactor circuit was spliced here into smaller wiring and was dramatically overheating every time the compactor was run, causing all of the other wire insulation in the metal junction box to melt and momentarily causing some of the other wires to arc. The wood around the junction box was heavily singed from all of this overheating - we were extremely lucky that a major fire had not been started.
So, I'll repeat, do not use the LEAF 120V EVSE unless it is connected to a circuit that you know is up to modern electrical code.
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