newbie to this website, EV and to Leaf, a couple of questions

[jsteve]

Hi All,

I'm Jan and I just joined this site today. I bought my first EV, a 2022 Nissan Leaf 2 weeks ago. I'm overwhelmed a bit with learning about EVs but am enjoying this and am interested in making this way of car travel to be successful for me and maybe even influence my hubby to get him off of ICE cars.

We recently relocated from the San Francisco Bay Area to the Portland Metro area. In the process of our move I said a tearful goodbye to my much-loved 23 year old BMW 318ti (1998). It was time to let it go. Once we got settled in a bit one of the first things I did was get my new car. I first considered a used BMW i3 and then I test drove a Nissan Leaf and I completely sold that the new 2022 Leaf was a much better choice than a used BMW i3 for many reasons.

At this stage, I have 2 random questions. One that is very specific (searching on this site, I could not find anything related) and the other that I'm curious about but haven't yet done a search on.

Q1: EVSE plug; this is a logistical question that I would like to find a solution to since I believe there is a safety impact.

Please see photo:

Is there a way to fortify the plug at the 110 outlet in my garage? Please note the gap at the top of the plug. Even if I try to balance the EVSE control box on something the cable weight still pulls the plug enough to create the gap. The car battery get changed just fine though. I never see any fault lights on the EVSE control unit.

I'd like to know of there is some kinda of insert or something that would make the plug stay snug in the outlet?

Please note, we're renting right now while looking for a new home, so I can't drill any holes into the wall. If I could I would just install the control box holder that came with my portable EVSE charging cable. I'm looking for a solution that is temporary. Once we get to a real home, I will get a proper dedicated level 2 charger in my garage then.

Q2: 12V battery, does it get charged by the electric motor?

From other references I see that the 12V accessory battery does get charged by the EVSE once it gets to the "3rd blue indicator" light. But does the 12V battery also receive a charge from the electric motor when I'm driving the car? I just don't want to face a dead 12V battery unexpectedly.

Thanks!
--jan

 

[LeftieBiker]

Welcome to the forum. I'll answer the second question first: no, the 12 volt battery isn't charged by the motor. You are thinking of Regenerative Braking, and that adds charge to the big high voltage battery when you brake. The 12 volt battery is charged by the car's 12 volt system, using a "DC to DC converter" that takes power from the high voltage (about 408 volts DC) pack and converts it to 13-14 volts DC. Some Leafs don't do such a great job at this, so you may want to check the resting (car off for 30 minutes) voltage of the 12 volt battery. If it's lower than 12.5 volts then you may want to use a battery maintainer or charger on it once or twice a month, or even just run the front windshield wipers once, once or twice per trip, as that boosts the 12 volt system voltage a bit.

Now, on to the EVSE. That's an unusual outlet that it's plugged into. It almost looks like a 240 volt outlet, but it looks like you have the 120 volt adapter attached to the 240 volt plug on the EVSE....Can you post a picture of the outlet with nothing plugged into it? The EVSE's 120 volt plug would be a better fit in a standard 120 volt duplex outlet. Most of us use the holster that comes with the EVSE, but any kind of support under the "brick" part would do. Not being able to put any holes in the wall does make it harder, though...

 

[oxothuk]

Q1: I know you said it’s a rental, but I wouldn’t have any compunction about drilling into the studs in the wall in the picture you posted- the tape marks make it pretty obvious where the studs are located. Other option might be to put a tall box underneath the outlet to support the EVSE so it doesn’t pull down on the outlet.

Q2: The electric motor is not capable of charging anything. The 12v battery gets its charge from the main traction battery when necessary.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The electric motor is not capable of charging anything.

Actually, that's not the case. The controller changes the circuit path every time you step on the brake or just coast, making the motor into a generator until it is again required to move the car, or the car stops. This adds to the main pack's charge, and is called "Regenerative Braking."

 

[jsteve]

Thanks @LeftieBiker! Good to know that the 12V battery is only charged off the EVSE.

As for more info on my Q1, I'm attaching a few photos:

1) photo of the outlet in the garage, as you requested:

2) the charging cable plug WITHOUT the adapter:

My understanding this is only to be plugged into a 240 outlet. Unfortunately there's no 240 outlet in my rental's garage :-(

3) the 120 adapter with the end that I plug into the garage wall outlet:

Thanks for the welcome and for the help!
--jan

 

[jsteve]

Q1: I know you said it’s a rental, but I wouldn’t have any compunction about drilling into the studs in the wall in the picture you posted- the tape marks make it pretty obvious where the studs are located. Other option might be to put a tall box underneath the outlet to support the EVSE so it doesn’t pull down on the outlet.

Q2: The electric motor is not capable of charging anything. The 12v battery gets its charge from the main traction battery when necessary.

Thanks @oxothuk. I may simply put the holster up (I called it a holder, but I like the word holster better) and deal with any hole repair/re-paint at move-out time.

I'm also contemplating getting a qualified electrician in at my expense to give me my options for proper home charging and maybe even approach our landlord and strike a deal, like going halfsies on installing dedicated level 2 charging capability into this garage of our rental unit. I think having level 2 charging capability in a rental would be a plus when advertising to future tenents. Or even foot the cost 100% if it isn't exorbitant and the landlord approves it. But we do not plan to be in this rental for more than 10 months or so, so I'd have to weigh out the options.

Thanks!
--jan

 

[jsteve]

The electric motor is not capable of charging anything.

Actually, that's not the case. The controller changes the circuit path every time you step on the brake or just coast, making the motor into a generator until it is again required to move the car, or the car stops. This adds to the main pack's charge, and is called "Regenerative Braking."

Hi @LeftieBiker,

I do like the regenerative braking aspect. In fact after some initial period of adjustment I have liked the "EPedal" feature on my car. It makes for 1 pedal driving and my understanding is that will improve the amount of regenerative braking supplying charge back into the big battery, plus help with life of the brakes too. win-win. But I do have to say after driving an ICE car for over 4 decades un-learning "hitting the brakes" is a "new" skill

 

[GerryAZ]

As others have noted, you could put something under the EVSE box to support it. You could also attach the support bracket to a board and lean the board against the wall below the receptacle. Another alternative (for temporary) is to use a short heavy-duty extension cord so that the EVSE box can sit on the floor. The cord should be as short as possible and at least No. 12 AWG. I made up a 10-foot cord using No. 10 AWG flexible cable with heavy-duty receptacle and plug connectors to carry in the car with the portable EVSE. This allows the EVSE to sit on the ground when using a 120-volt receptacle.

The car charges the 12V battery from the traction battery when the car is in READY mode (ready to drive) and also when the traction battery is being charged. Many on the forum complain that the LEAF does not adequately charge the 12V battery, but I have driven my three LEAF's over 170,000 miles total since 2011 and never connected an external charger to their 12V batteries (your experience may vary).

 

[goldbrick]

I have the older 120V only EVSE from Nissan but it looks similar to your unit. What I do to support the EVSE 'brick' is to use a small piece of cord through a hole in one of the top corners of the case. I have about a 1' loop that goes around a small hook that is screwed into a stud behind the drywall. It's only on one side but you could easily run a loop through the holes on each side (if they exist) as needed. The hole the hook made in the drywall is about the size of a nail hole and could be easily patched when you move out.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Thanks @LeftieBiker! Good to know that the 12V battery is only charged off the EVSE.

No, that isn't it. The EVSE provides enough charge to make up for what it "costs" the car in energy, but it doesn't charge the 12 volt battery much. The car has a separate 12 volt system that consists of a DC-DC converter that lowers power from the main battery down to 13-14 volts. That is what keeps the 12 volt battery charged.

Thanks for the photos. I was afraid that you'd somehow managed to plug the 120 volt adapter into a 240 volt outlet. What you have is a single 120 volt, 20 amp outlet. When considered having a wiring upgrade done for charging, consider this: if that 120 volt, 20 amp outlet has nothing else plugged into its circuit, then you could just get an aftermarket EVSE that can be set to charge at 16 amps, instead of the 12 amps the Nissan unit can use. *That would let you charge reasonably fast (if you aren't in a hurry) with the 120 volt setup you have. The Nissan unit can't do that, but you can get an EVSE for $200 - $500 that can.

* The reason the maximum charge rates are lower than the circuit rating is that the Nation Electrical Code requires that circuits used continuously (defined as more than 3 hours, IIRC) for things like charging cars can only draw 80% of their rated maximum while doing so.

 

[henrydehoja]

Another alternative (for temporary) is to use a short heavy-duty extension cord so that the EVSE box can sit on the floor. The cord should be as short as possible and at least No. 12 AWG. I made up a 10-foot cord using No. 10 AWG flexible cable with heavy-duty receptacle and plug connectors to carry in the car with the portable EVSE. This allows the EVSE to sit on the ground when using a 120-volt receptacle.

Welcome, Jan!

I agree with using an extension cord for this situation. Since that 120V outlet is needed here for charging, I would head to the local hardware store and buy a (120V ckt) heavy-duty extension cord, about 10 ft in length, rated for at least 15 Amps.

This approach also prevents you from having to modify the wall for attachments, and having to deal with it as potential "wall damage" at the end of your rental agreement.

 

[jsteve]

HI All,

I wanted to circle back to this thread. It's been almost 2 months already. Time flies. But I really appreciate the help I got here, especially the idea (GaryAZ) to mount the bracket that came with my ESVE kit to a board and then use that to prop up against the wall of the garage in our rental. That is a great idea. But it then led me to use a stepstool to do something similar, naming propping up the big "brick" thing. Not as elegant as actually using the really nice mount bracket I have, but the stepstool WORKS It leaves no "gap" where the big wonky plug plugs into the outlet.

Granted only a trickle charge and it takes forever to charge my car. But as I get used to this car I've gotten used to a routine and I no longer charge it away from home. Still can't wait till we get into a real home where I can put a dedicated charger in and make it very simple (and faster) to charge at home.

Thanks,
--jan

 

[Jim74656]

Thanks @LeftieBiker! Good to know that the 12V battery is only charged off the EVSE.

As for more info on my Q1, I'm attaching a few photos:

1) photo of the outlet in the garage, as you requested:

2) the charging cable plug WITHOUT the adapter:

My understanding this is only to be plugged into a 240 outlet. Unfortunately there's no 240 outlet in my rental's garage :-(

3) the 120 adapter with the end that I plug into the garage wall outlet:

Thanks for the welcome and for the help!
--jan

I know I might be late to this party, but what they have pictured is a standard 110V 20A outlet (think hospital grade plugs).

 

[LeftieBiker]

What is pictured is the 120 volt adapter for the Nissan dual voltage EVSE. The adapter plugs into the 240 volt slots and takes power from just one leg, for 120 volts.

I think there are two beers left, and some half-eaten nachos.

 

[alozzy]

Is there a way to fortify the plug at the 110 outlet in my garage? Please note the gap at the top of the plug. Even if I try to balance the EVSE control box on something the cable weight still pulls the plug enough to create the gap. The car battery get changed just fine though. I never see any fault lights on the EVSE control unit.

If it was me, I would place the EVSE (charger) on top of the short concrete wall and use a 2' or 3' 12 GA extension cord up to the 120V receptacle. Something like this:

https://amzn.to/3ISgfJD

 

[goldbrick]

I just saw the horse twitch - I don't think it's dead.

The picture shows a NEMA 5-20R receptacle. It's rated for 125V and 20A. It will also accept a standard 15A plug which is what the male end of the adapter provides.

 

[XLH]

The day I brought my 2022 SL Plus home a couple of weeks ago, I had exactly the same problem. I had this NSF-type shelf and with a couple of zipties it is working like it was a custom installation!

 

[LeftieBiker]

If it were me, I'd get some sort of sheet rubber , and use it to isolate the brick from the stand.

 

[XLH]

If it were me, I'd get some sort of sheet rubber , and use it to isolate the brick from the stand.

Excellent idea. I'll buy one tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[LeftieBiker]

No problem. Even a sheet of wood would be an improvement, although it would be flammable.