JuiceBox Basic Enhanced is sold

[QueenBee]

But nary a soul has brought up the fact that NONE of these products are FCC approved either. They have switching power supplies inside and digital electronic circuits, so why is this not also an "agency compliance" requirement as well? Am I missing something here?

Seems to be something not many people want to talk about in the open hardware world. Clearly assbled Juiceboxes are required to have testing for FCC compliance and I would think even the JB/OpenEVSE kits with premade boards would as well. It seems pretty common in the small batch circuit boards to not carry FCC certifications. I assume everyone is just hoping that they are too small to get on the FCCs radar(antenna?). Would be interesting to hear what Chris and EW's stance on this.

One thing that has been brought up by Nick S. is that the metal cases are probably better as they'd be better at blocking emmissions.

Dsinned, not sure what those two counties require over the rest of the country but the NEC (National Electrical Code) requires NRTL(Nationally Recognized Testing Labortatory, of which UL is one) components and equipment. Additionally OSHA does as well for equipment used in a work place.

There is no way using an EVSEUpgrade, JuiceBox, Manzanita Micro P3, or OpenEVSE should pass an electrical inspection if connected at the time of inspection and part of the work being inspected. The same if they were being used at work place/job site and inspected by an OSHA inspector. That isn't to say that they would notice but a Washington state electrical inspector would not pass an inspection because a non-NRTL certified Manzanita P3 EVSE was in the garage but not mounted/plugged in.

That's one of the reasons why I think it's irresponsible to sell assembled units as if they are a real product. Additional I like that Chris does have a warning on the OpenEVSE site though I don't think it really explains the consequences and implications of the OpenEVSE being just For testing/demonstration/whatever working he uses.

 

[pchilds]

Seems to be something not many people want to talk about in the open hardware world. Clearly assbled Juiceboxes are required to have testing for FCC compliance and I would think even the JB/OpenEVSE kits with premade boards would as well. It seems pretty common in the small batch circuit boards to not carry FCC certifications. I assume everyone is just hoping that they are too small to get on the FCCs radar(antenna?). Would be interesting to hear what Chris and EW's stance on this.

One thing that has been brought up by Nick S. is that the metal cases are probably better as they'd be better at blocking emmissions.

Dsinned, not sure what those two counties require over the rest of the country but the NEC (National Electrical Code) requires NRTL(Nationally Recognized Testing Labortatory, of which UL is one) components and equipment. Additionally OSHA does as well for equipment used in a work place.

There is no way using an EVSEUpgrade, JuiceBox, Manzanita Micro P3, or OpenEVSE should pass an electrical inspection if connected at the time of inspection and part of the work being inspected. The same if they were being used at work place/job site and inspected by an OSHA inspector. That isn't to say that they would notice but a Washington state electrical inspector would not pass an inspection because a non-NRTL certified Manzanita P3 EVSE was in the garage but not mounted/plugged in.

That's one of the reasons why I think it's irresponsible to sell assembled units as if they are a real product. Additional I like that Chris does have a warning on the OpenEVSE site though I don't think it really explains the consequences and implications of the OpenEVSE being just For testing/demonstration/whatever working he uses.

Something you build yourself doesn't need to meet FCC, but if it interferes, the FCC can stop you from using it and fine you if you don't.

I think your inspector was out of line. Does Washington require every pull in device to be NRTL certified?

In California, I have purchased many devices that are not NRTL certified. I have a wireless switch that has a non-polarized input and a polarized output, if plugged in wrong, you have swapped the hot and neutral.

 

[srl99]

Do any of them make you sign a long disclaimer like the guy that hacks the EVSEs?

 

[QueenBee]

Something you build yourself doesn't need to meet FCC, but if it interferes, the FCC can stop you from using it and fine you if you don't.

I think your inspector was out of line. Does Washington require every pull in device to be NRTL certified?

He was definitely stretching his authority. I wonder if the fact that some EVSEs are mounted/installed "permanently" vs just being a simple plugin appliance would require an electrical inspection?

So you think the OpenEVSE/JuiceBox boards don't have to be FCC certified? Is there an exemption for selling preassembled subcomponents?

 

[pchilds]

He was definitely stretching his authority. I wonder if the fact that some EVSEs are mounted/installed "permanently" vs just being a simple plugin appliance would require an electrical inspection?

So you think the OpenEVSE/JuiceBox boards don't have to be FCC certified? Is there an exemption for selling preassembled subcomponents?

There would be no way to certify a PCB assembly. The unit as a whole is FCC certified. If you are selling all the parts, I don't know, if that would get you out on having to be FCC certified or not.

Edited to add: I unit could fail FCC certification by improper assembly. Improperly tightened case screws, placement of wires, gaskets, ferrite beads, all can effect, RFI. A kit seller has no way to control, how the unit is assembled.

 

[QueenBee]

He was definitely stretching his authority. I wonder if the fact that some EVSEs are mounted/installed "permanently" vs just being a simple plugin appliance would require an electrical inspection?

So you think the OpenEVSE/JuiceBox boards don't have to be FCC certified? Is there an exemption for selling preassembled subcomponents?

There would be no way to certify a PCB assembly. The unit as a whole is FCC certified. If you are selling all the parts, I don't know, if that would get you out on having to be FCC certified or not.

Edited to add: I unit could fail FCC certification by improper assembly. Improperly tightened case screws, placement of wires, gaskets, ferrite beads, all can effect, RFI. A kit seller has no way to control, how the unit is assembled.

Looking at a drawer full of what I would consider PCB assemblies (PCI/AGP/etc. cards for computers) I see lots of FCC markings so there is clearly a method for testing/certifying a sub component of a larger device. I don't know anything about the process and what it takes to pass to know if the metal case of a computer is required to make a computer pass but the same logic as above could be used. Maybe something as simple as not installing all the blank faceplates could be enough for a computer to fail.

I'll have to see if there is someone at work who is bored and wants to teach me how to use the faraday cage and radio spectrum analyzer to see how noisy an EVSEUpgrade, stock EVSE, and a OpenEVSE in a plastic case are.

 

[GlennD]

That would have been a perfect project for me before I retired. The city has a screen room in the radio shop so It could be checked without outside interference.

OpenEVSE is based on the picopower 328P so I would guess the emissions are pretty low. I do know the only way I can check the 16MHZ oscillator is to use my service monitor's receiver. It is so low power that it dies with a scope probe. I have to put a pickup wire directly on the crystal. By the way, the service monitor is 2 microvolts sensitivity.

He was definitely stretching his authority. I wonder if the fact that some EVSEs are mounted/installed "permanently" vs just being a simple plugin appliance would require an electrical inspection?

So you think the OpenEVSE/JuiceBox boards don't have to be FCC certified? Is there an exemption for selling preassembled subcomponents?

There would be no way to certify a PCB assembly. The unit as a whole is FCC certified. If you are selling all the parts, I don't know, if that would get you out on having to be FCC certified or not.

Edited to add: I unit could fail FCC certification by improper assembly. Improperly tightened case screws, placement of wires, gaskets, ferrite beads, all can effect, RFI. A kit seller has no way to control, how the unit is assembled.

Looking at a drawer full of what I would consider PCB assemblies (PCI/AGP/etc. cards for computers) I see lots of FCC markings so there is clearly a method for testing/certifying a sub component of a larger device. I don't know anything about the process and what it takes to pass to know if the metal case of a computer is required to make a computer pass but the same logic as above could be used. Maybe something as simple as not installing all the blank faceplates could be enough for a computer to fail.

I'll have to see if there is someone at work who is bored and wants to teach me how to use the faraday cage and radio spectrum analyzer to see how noisy an EVSEUpgrade, stock EVSE, and a OpenEVSE in a plastic case are.