Is a home charging station necessary?

[max243732]

Surprisingly, I don't seem to be able to find an answer to this question:

Is a home charging station necessary for the Leaf, or can you get by with a regular wall outlet?

We recently had our home assessment and because our circuit box is nowhere near the garage, there would need to be a lot of expensive wiring done in order to put a home charging station in the garage. The estimate came back this week: $5000+ to install.

This puts the Leaf out of my price range. But if the home charging station were optional (or at least something that could be deferred for a couple years), the budget just might stretch.

So far, the only thing I've been able to glean from the internet is that a regular wall outlet can be used, but it's much much slower. Are there any other issues, though? I would basically use the Leaf for 2 purposes: 30-40 miles of commuting per day, and perhaps 20 miles of city/suburban driving for errands on weekends. Anything longer and we'd use my wife's car. I honestly can't see a time where I wouldn't have 8+ hours to charge it, nor can I see any chance of me going even 50 miles without returning home to charge.

Thanks!
Max

 

[keydiver]

Your usage seems well within the parameters for the simple 120 volt charging. Just ask for a waver on the AV install, and try it first, IMO. I take it that the garage already has 120 VAC in it, just not 240?
There are several similar topics listed here in this thread:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=6031" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[mwalsh]

Agreed. From what you've told us, you'll get by fine with the 120v outlet.

 

[smkettner]

I have been averaging close to 50 miles per day on L1 since May. Very rarely have I run short and needed the Subaru.
I have had a couple days just over 100 miles. I have never sat and waited for a charge. Just charging when available is enough.

 

[kevin672]

As mentioned, there are many posts on the subject. In general, get a couple of quotes from a local electrician not associated with AV or any other electric vehicle outfit for installing a 220 line (assuming you don't already have 220 in the garage). You only need 16 amps for the LEAF, but since labor is the major cost, consider installing a 40 amp (6 gauge wire) line. Then you can buy your own EVSE for about $1000 from a retailer or less second hand (Home Depot, Lowes, etc.). I think you'll find it's much more affordable that way. While you can do 110v charging, it's much more convenient to have 220. I did 110 for about 2 months and had to plan the next days driving carefully. Once I had the 220 it didn't matter because I know the LEAF will always be fully charged by the morning.

 

[BLUEH20]

2800 miles and my LEAF has no idea what an at home 240 charging station looks like.

I drive much the same as you and have always used my L-1 supplied with the vehicle. I have charged once at the local dealership to ensure that the 240V system was functional and once at a gala grand opening of a L-2 at Stevens Pass in Washington State.

I usually charge to 80% with an occasional 100% if I anticipate a bit more that usual usage. Plug in when I put the LEAF away for the day and it is ready the next morning.

Will I get a 240 L-2? Most likely if they become reasonably priced, but for now--nope!

 

[max243732]

Thanks to everyone for the quick replies!

Three follow-up questions:

1) dumb question: 120V is a regular home outlet, correct? We do have one in the garage.

2) Besides slow charging compared to the 240 (220?), is charging via the 120V going to cost more in terms of my electricity bill? Or is it all the same?

3) Any effects on the battery from always charging via the 120V? I guess the Leaf hasn't been around long enough for anyone to study the long-term effects...

Thanks!

 

[91040]

Thanks to everyone for the quick replies!

Three follow-up questions:

1) dumb question: 120V is a regular home outlet, correct? We do have one in the garage.

2) Besides slow charging compared to the 240 (220?), is charging via the 120V going to cost more in terms of my electricity bill? Or is it all the same?

3) Any effects on the battery from always charging via the 120V? I guess the Leaf hasn't been around long enough for anyone to study the long-term effects...

Thanks!

1) Yes, but it is recommended to be a 20amp dedicated line. Most homes are 15 amp. If nothing else is using that circuit when you are charging, you should be fine.
2) It is reported that 120 charging is less efficient probably due to the fixed electrical draw of the cooling mechanism during the longer charging time. It probably is not a significant cost.
3) Reportedly, should not be a problem.

 

[smkettner]

1) Yes a normal outlet works fine. Leaf does draw 12 amps continuous so if it is a shared circuit you could open the breaker. No trouble and you should know when it happens.

2) Probably use slightly more electric due to the longer charging time to run the coolent pump etc.

3) Not enough to think about.

 

[max243732]

This is very helpful. I've only been a homeowner for about a year, so some of this info on circuits and amps is going over my head.

I don't know if anything else is on the same circuit as the garage outlet. I assume I'd be able to tell this from the circuit-breaker box thing in our basement? Is all of this discussion about a "dedicated" line simply a matter of not drawing too much electricity out of the same circuit? I'm also not sure what "opening the breaker" entails and how I would know "when it happens".

How can I tell if the outlet in the garage is 15 amps or 20? Someone said that 20 is preferred - can a 15 be converted to a 20 easily?

Again, I'm very grateful to anyone who can give me a quick run down on these issues. I appreciate the time you take to answer my idiotic questions. Thanks so much!

 

[91040]

This is very helpful. I've only been a homeowner for about a year, so some of this info on circuits and amps is going over my head.

I don't know if anything else is on the same circuit as the garage outlet. I assume I'd be able to tell this from the circuit-breaker box thing in our basement? Is all of this discussion about a "dedicated" line simply a matter of not drawing too much electricity out of the same circuit? I'm also not sure what "opening the breaker" entails and how I would know "when it happens".

How can I tell if the outlet in the garage is 15 amps or 20? Someone said that 20 is preferred - can a 15 be converted to a 20 easily?

Again, I'm very grateful to anyone who can give me a quick run down on these issues. I appreciate the time you take to answer my idiotic questions. Thanks so much!

Look in your breaker box and check if one of the breakers is labeled for your garage outlets. Notice if anything else is listed. The breaker will have a number on it, usually 15 amp or 20 amp. If no label, you can turn breakers off one at a time until you find out which one kills the outlet. Then check to see which other outlets/lights, etc. are not working.

Dedicated simply means nothing else is using the circuit. The breaker will trip if more amps are being drawn than the rating of the breaker.

An open breaker means it has been tripped or turned off. Just flip the breaker switch from the side marked off to on. Sometimes though tripped, the breaker looks as if it is on. If that circuit is dead flip it to off before returning to the on position.

Whether you can convert a 15amp circuit to a 20 amp depends on the length of the run and gauge of the wire used. You need an electrician or someone knowledgeable to determine. Not Me!

 

[ebill3]

I've only had my LEAF for about three weeks. I charge strictly L1 (120 volts) from a 15 Amp circuit in the garage. Also on that 15 Amp circuit is a small chest freezer, a work bench light, and the garage door opener. No breaker trip to date and I don't expect one. The freezer does draw >5 Amps at start-up, but quickly falls off to 1 or 2 Amps. Breakers will tolerate a slight overload for brief periods. There are power tools on that circuit as well, but I can easily avoid using them while charging.

Manually trip your garage breaker and see what else turns off - probably nothing but the garage. Bet you will be just fine.

Bill

 

[edatoakrun]

Mentioned earlier, but I wanted to reiterate that L1 charging is less efficient than 240V, on the order of 75% as compared with 85% for L2. A search of older threads will give you details.

A 10% increase in kWh use may cause a higher percentage increase in your EV charging costs, depending on your Utility's rate design. And L1 will certainly increase the upstream emissions of your LEAF by the same percentage, or even more, depending on your utility's generation mix over your charge time.

I had planned on L1, and used if with no problems for a month. But getting the EVSE upgrade made sense for me, and I have now used it as my sole EVSE for 3 months. If you have or can easily install a 240V outlet, you will get these additional advantages over L1:

Flexibility. You can recharge at home, for an unplanned drive, much faster. You can also recharge to 80% using the timer, which is advised for maximum battery life, but add more kWh much faster, when you decide you want it.

Portability. You can travel and recharge from commercial locations, such as RV parks, as well as tapping into the garage/laundry room 240V outlets of friends and family. I haven't acquired the "quick 240" option, but you could, and then recharge at L2 speed from 120 V outlets.

For me, these advantages made the upgrade a VERY useful purchase.

No hurry, you can try 120V first. But keep the advantages of L2 in mind, if you want or need to do any electrical work, like installing a dedicated outlet.

 

[mark13]

I think there is a company that will upgrade your 110V charger so it charges faster also..

 

[cwerdna]

Surprisingly, I don't seem to be able to find an answer to this question:

There are a few folks here on MNL (and previously were more) who got by fine only on the included 120V L1 "trickle charge" EVSE. If you've tried doing a search, it'll likely miss all the old posts because search is still partly broken. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=135375#p135375" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Not sure if anyone is going to fix it as it's been partly busted since at least August.

 

[JPWhite]

$5,000 is kinda crazy.

Have you considered getting a quote from an electrician to run a 240v circuit to a convenient location in the garage? If the quote is reasonable, then get your L1 charger upgraded to run at 240v also. See the following website for prices/options.

http://evseupgrade.com/?2

So add about $300 to whatever the electrician quotes you and you will have the option of both L1 and L2 at home and round about.

 

[mrdcmills]

I've gone over 6000 miles since Oct with the 120v unit. Many short trips during the day and I charge at work nights. Get some more guestimates $5000 seems expensive to pull some wire for an $800 to $1000 unit.

 

[Mottyski82]

I agree with jpwhite. I am happy that I put a twist lock 240v socket, 30 amp line in the garage with a 20 amp breaker and had my L1 EVSE upgraded by EVSE upgrade. You can cut your charging time in half for a reasonable price.

 

[planet4ever]

I agree with jpwhite. I am happy that I put a twist lock 240v socket, 30 amp line in the garage with a 20 amp breaker and had my L1 EVSE upgraded by EVSE upgrade. You can cut your charging time in half for a reasonable price.

Actually, better than that. It cuts the time to about one third. That's because the amperage is higher AND the voltage is higher AND there is less loss (because of less time) in running the cooling system for the on-board charger.

Ray

 

[Wennfred]

Surprisingly, I don't seem to be able to find an answer to this question:

Is a home charging station necessary for the Leaf, or can you get by with a regular wall outlet?

We recently had our home assessment and because our circuit box is nowhere near the garage, there would need to be a lot of expensive wiring done in order to put a home charging station in the garage. The estimate came back this week: $5000+ to install.

This puts the Leaf out of my price range. But if the home charging station were optional (or at least something that could be deferred for a couple years), the budget just might stretch.

So far, the only thing I've been able to glean from the internet is that a regular wall outlet can be used, but it's much much slower. Are there any other issues, though? I would basically use the Leaf for 2 purposes: 30-40 miles of commuting per day, and perhaps 20 miles of city/suburban driving for errands on weekends. Anything longer and we'd use my wife's car. I honestly can't see a time where I wouldn't have 8+ hours to charge it, nor can I see any chance of me going even 50 miles without returning home to charge.

Thanks!
Max

Hi Max, Do you have a Washer/Dryer with the bigger 220/240 volt connector? Didn't see if you leased or purchased the Leaf, you can get your current Evse brick upgraded for 240 volts and connect behind the Dryer. That's how I do it until I get my Bosch Power Max hardwired into the 200 amp power box.

I like to keep my Leaf charged and ready to go, 2.5 hours to 4 hours and Im done... The 11 to 15 hour charge at 120 volts got old quick.


Fred