Interesting LeafSpy Results from a 2013 SL

[Phatcat73]

Two possible tests:

1. 100 km/h (62 mph) ground speed range test (Tony's favorite)

2. Drain to turtle and charge to 100% measuring energy from the wall to recharge using a Blink or Chargepoint.

Unfortunately test #2 may not correlate exactly between '11-12 and '13+ LEAFs since the OBC changed and 3.3 vs 6.6 kW charging on '13+ LEAFs. If charging back up in public you'll also want to note grid voltage (208 or 240V).

Regarding #2: I just took some measurements. While I was not at turtle, I'm sure I was close and impressed with battery performance to date:

 

[DaveEV]

Regarding #2: I just took some measurements. While I was not at turtle, I'm sure I was close and impressed with battery performance to date:

Great data! Here it is in text form:

Charge start:: 8 GIDs 2.8% SOC (almost turtle lowest CP voltage at 3.08V)
Pack temp 77-81F
22.094 kWh to charge at on a ChargePoint station (looks like 208V based on power level), 6.6 kW OBC.
4h 45m 15s charge time, 1 hour of that was tapering down and ~45 minutes at < 1kW.

Analysis:
Compared to '11-12 LEAFs, there appears to be some capacity loss as '11-12 LEAFs generally take 24-25 kWh from the wall from turtle to 100%. However, We really need to compare to a new LEAF to be certain, as it's quite likely that the '13+ 6.6kW charger is more efficient.

 

[jsa061]

Regarding #2: I just took some measurements. While I was not at turtle, I'm sure I was close and impressed with battery performance to date:

At 16% soc you should have at least 10% left before turtle. At least that's the way it worked on the old leaf.

 

[bradbissell]

I'll add my car to the discussion:

2013 SV Built 3/13, Purchased 3/13

ODO = 17120 miles

Ahr = 65.05 SOH = 99% Hx= 99.52

Max Charge %: Winter = 100%, Summer = 80%


My SOH goes up and down based on temperature and if I've charged to 100%. Lowest I've seen has been SOH=96% and if I charge to 100% for a few days it creeps back to 100%.


Looks like they did something in some of the early 2013 packs.

 

[RLewisCA]

I'll add my car to the discussion:

2013 SV Built 3/13, Purchased 3/13

Ahr = 65.05 SOH = 99% Hx= 99.52

Max Charge %: Winter = 100%, Summer = 80%


My SOH goes up and down based on temperature and if I've charged to 100%. Lowest I've seen has been SOH=96% and if I charge to 100% for a few days it creeps back to 100%.


Looks like they did something in some of the early 2013 packs.

How many miles?

 

[jstack6]

SpyPro showed we lost 12% in Phoenix are with our 2013 after 1 summer. A local Nissan Proving grounds tech confirmed it. After the winter we are back to only 10% lost but we will see how this summer does. We have a 2 year lease on this one. I've heard all 2015 models will have the Desert Heat Tolerant new chemistry. I've also read the e-NV200 van type electric has Air cooling. We will see where this all puts us and it's great Nissan is working on the heat issues.

FYI- I also have a 2013 Focus EV with liquid cooling and it has not lost any capacity after the same hot summer. But it doesn't have an efficient Heat Pump like the LEAF. Can't we get all the good features in the same EV?

We test drove the new BMW i3 this week end. It seems very good but a lease with zero down is over 3 times more than our LEAF or Focus that are about $300 with zero down. The i3 have very Tesla strong REGEN, no creep and ECO Pro mode to be very efficient and light weight. I'd love to test drive it for a year to see the limits and details on it. We need a Desert HEAT consumers report on every EV. I'd be glad to do it but don't know how to cover the costs.

 

[ObjetDart]

Here's another data point. 2013 SV built 5/2013, leased 7/2013, with 8,342 miles:

Edit:

As requested, my charging habits are: I charge to 80% at home at 120V the majority of the time. I charge to 100% once and occasionally twice a week when I know I'm going to need it.

 

[Stoaty]

I've heard all 2015 models will have the Desert Heat Tolerant new chemistry.

Heard from who?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Here's another data point. 2013 SV built 5/2013, leased 7/2013, with 8,342 miles:

can you add in your charging habits as well? this info seems to be critical and if i were to guess, i would say it appears you are not charging to full very often but rather not guess

 

[ObjetDart]

Can you add in your charging habits as well? this info seems to be critical and if i were to guess, i would say it appears you are not charging to full very often but rather not guess

Done!

 

[jsongster]

I don't own a LeafSpy Gizmo... but my 2013 SL bought on Labor day was built in july... so... maybe next time I get to an SF Bay LEAFs meet someone can check it and add to the pool.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Can you add in your charging habits as well? this info seems to be critical and if i were to guess, i would say it appears you are not charging to full very often but rather not guess

Done!

thank you and as predicted your lack of charging to 100% has your battery with low numbers that are valid?? guessing probably not. this begs the question of why? can top end balancing be that important? if the cells in the pack are well matched to begin with, it shouldn't matter that much. Hill has even shallower charging habits and is beating the degradation curve by quite a bit on a 2011.

 

[lorenfb]

Two possible tests:

1. 100 km/h (62 mph) ground speed range test (Tony's favorite)

2. Drain to turtle and charge to 100% measuring energy from the wall to recharge using a Blink or Chargepoint.

Unfortunately test #2 may not correlate exactly between '11-12 and '13+ LEAFs since the OBC changed and 3.3 vs 6.6 kW charging on '13+ LEAFs. If charging back up in public you'll also want to note grid voltage (208 or 240V).

Regarding #2: I just took some measurements. While I was not at turtle, I'm sure I was close and impressed with battery performance to date:

These high AHrs (>65) data being reported with mileage over 5,000 become very questionable given
what many Leaf owners have reported over the years and given basic lithium ion battery characteristics as
function of time and use. Without verifying the accuracy of the measurement device, i.e. the current
probe and its calibration of the high AHr Leafs versus the typical AHr (~ 60 Ahr) at about 5,000 miles,
no accurate conclusion can be made as to the validity of these data and whether there is a real significant
difference in the high AHr data being reported and the typical AHr Leaf data.

What further makes the reported AHr data questionable is that other Leafs manufactured during the basic
same time frame report AHr data characteristic of what has been reported over the years by the typical
Leaf owner.

Without an actual out-of-the-vehicle AHr measurement, one would have to discount the accuracy of what's
being reported and attribute the difference to measurement error and not to a real AHr battery difference.

My data; 7500 miles, 59AHr

 

[Mottyski82]

In science, doesn't it go to say that if two experiments are done with the same measuring devices, there should be no error in the correct reading and final data? We all are using LEAF spy... BTW, I have some similar results to report (soon) using LEAF spy as the tool of science.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

agreed with the statement that the measurements are wrong. there is simply not enough power going to to resupply a full capacity pack. my pack tells me I have 22.7 kwh available at 284 GIDs so how can you only put in 22 kwh, remove losses and still be full? something is amiss here

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

In science, doesn't it go to say that if two experiments are done with the same measuring devices, there should be no error in the correct reading and final data? We all are using LEAF spy... BTW, I have some similar results to report (soon) using LEAF spy as the tool of science.

LEAF Spy does not measure anything. it is a reporting device. it would be hard for me to believe that the common consensus has not determined that Nissan measuring devices have very poor quality control

 

[DanCar]

I get 90+ mile range mostly on freeway with my March 2013. Coworker who bought his 6 months earlier has max 60 mile range in city driving. I have 9k miles on mine he has i think twice as much miles.

 

[RegGuheert]

Regarding #2: I just took some measurements. While I was not at turtle, I'm sure I was close and impressed with battery performance to date:

:?: Can someone explain to me why LEAFspy indicates SOC=16% even though the battery is at 8 GIDs and the cells are reading between 3.076 and 3.416V? At 16% SOC, the cells in our LEAF read over 3.5V! (Perhaps this snapshot was taken while driving up a mountain?)

Perhaps if the BCM thinks it is at 16% SOC when it is really only at 5% SOC, that explains why it also thinks the battery has 67.36Ah of capacity.

 

[bradbissell]

Updated my prior post:

17120 miles on my 2013 with SOH of 99%.

 

[stjohnh]

Regarding #2: I just took some measurements. While I was not at turtle, I'm sure I was close and impressed with battery performance to date:

:?: Can someone explain to me why LEAFspy indicates SOC=16% even though the battery is at 8 GIDs and the cells are reading between 3.076 and 3.416V? At 16% SOC, the cells in our LEAF read over 3.5V! (Perhaps this snapshot was taken while driving up a mountain?)

Perhaps if the BCM thinks it is at 16% SOC when it is really only at 5% SOC, that explains why it also thinks the battery has 67.36Ah of capacity.

I am very puzzled about the 16% as well. The 340 mv difference is also odd. Maybe shot was taken during acceleration?