I need an under 20KW DC ChaDeMo Quick Charger

[ht2]

There is another approach.

Charge Charger battery using 15KW input at night.
Using Charger battery to charge EV battery.
Only take 5 min to 70% charge. (I think this is for Mitsubishi I small Toshiba battery. 11KW?)
At this point using CHAdeMO protocol but none-CHAdeMO connector.
They are working with CHAdeMO to resolve the issue.

Japanese link.
http://www.jfe-eng.co.jp/release/news10/news_e10006.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Eng. translate.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.jfe-eng.co.jp/release/news10/news_e10006.html&ei=eYmDTueMMczUiAKX182WCA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DJFE%2B%25E8%25B6%2585%25E6%2580%25A5%25E9%2580%259F%25E5%2585%2585%25E9%259B%25BB%25E5%2599%25A8%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DKoM%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-USfficial%26prmd%3Dimvns" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ht2]

Update for above.

Now support CHAdeMO connector.
Japanese link.
http://www.ecool.jp/press/2011/09/jfeeng11-0928.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eng translation.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.ecool.jp/press/2011/09/jfeeng11-0928.html&ei=K6uDTvfBHcPniAK2xqGXCA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEkQ7gEwAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522Super%2BRAPIDAS%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_ja%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3D4N4%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-USfficial%26tbs%3Dlr:lang_1ja%26prmd%3Dimvnsu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TonyWilliams]

That is a very good find. Almost more than I could ask for in performance. 20kW power draw, up to 160kW push in to the battery.

Now, how long does the equipment take to recharge? It would appear that unless there is a sizable amount of batteries getting charged at 20kW, you could only do one car an hour or more, even if it only took 5 minutes to recharge.

Let's say there were four Nissan LEAF batteries, or about 100kWh stored. You could charge 4 or 5 cars, and then wait 4 or 5 hours for the next recharge.

Tony

 

[ht2]

5 minutes charge is only when using their 400A max connector.
If you use 120A max CHAdeMO connector it will take same 30min to 80% charge.

My guess is JFE can design charge and discharge simultaneously.
If you have 100KWh battery full and recharge with 20KWh from grid and discharge 40KWh(80% of 24KWh Leaf pack in 30min) to Leaf.
Net is you lose 10KWh per charge.(30 min)
You could charge about 10 cars from full charge then 30min charge one car and wait 30min for next charge

 

[Phoenix]

Has anyone gotten a response or found a price for the JFE Quick Chargers?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Has anyone gotten a response or found a price for the JFE Quick Chargers?

I didn't look into it at all.

 

[Phoenix]

Wikipedia reports the JFE Super Rapidas charger costs $63k but still waiting email response. Meanwhile Gizmag.com reports that Nissan has developed a 10-minute EV charger (still experimental). (Per later telephone call with JFE by Japanese speaker, SuperRapidas is NOT compatible with LEAF.)

On the utility topic, can anyone confirm if PG&E's demand charge kicks in when power is in excess of 20kW? On the tariff schedule, rates A-1 and A-6 seem to say this rate is good for customers with a maximum demand of under 200kW.

But that seems too high compared to under 20kW for most other utilities such as Roseville, SMUD & SDGE. City of Healdsburg's demand charge kicks in at 50kW and is considering installing TWO quick charges in front of their City Hall. We need to encourage that to happen!

 

[hill]

Maybe someone can contact a Mitsubishi insider (at the O.C. corporate building) to see if they'd be willing to disclose their power/rate structure on the Chademo that they so graciously let us use?

 

[TEG]

Maybe someone can contact a Mitsubishi insider (at the O.C. corporate building) to see if they'd be willing to disclose their power/rate structure on the Chademo that they so graciously let us use?

Do you really want to do that?
They might take a look and say "oh sh!t, we didn't know it cost that much!" and as a result further restrict its' use.

 

[evnow]

Anyone contacted Plugin America ?

This looks like a problem best corrected by changing regulation.

 

[Phoenix]

Even Google is considering installing a Quick Charge on their campus per presentation on Dec. 3rd. I assume they are such a large electricity consumer, adding a DC QC may not affect their already high load that much?

I think another possibility is cooperating with businesses/entities with high loads so distance LEAFers can use a CHAdeMO on site and be a source of some income to offset their electrical costs. For example, the San Francisco Muni streetcar depot at 26th and Illinois. Surely, their already high? consumption of electricity can incorporate a DC QC into the mix.

Or, locate a QC in Healdsburg where the demand charge doesn't kick in until over 50kW (albeit, their kwh charge is higher than PG&Es).

With no 6.6 kw charger for us pre 2013 LEAFs, we are stranded users without QC.

Yes, I did contact PlugIn America, but they don't have much information other than Adopt-A-Charger program (more for Level 2s). QC not such a big issue for Volts and Ford Focus' with no QC port.

This grid problem is something we need to pursue with the California PUC, along with the E9A rate problems.

 

[DaveEV]

Maybe someone can contact a Mitsubishi insider (at the O.C. corporate building) to see if they'd be willing to disclose their power/rate structure on the Chademo that they so graciously let us use?

Do you really want to do that?
They might take a look and say "oh sh!t, we didn't know it cost that much!" and as a result further restrict its' use.

The thing is - if you just use it once a month, the increment cost to use it more is very small in comparison - you've already incurred your demand charge so now you just pay $0.04 / kWh or about $1.00 for a full charge. The first charge of the month will cost you about $1,000 though.

 

[walterbays]

I think another possibility is cooperating with businesses/entities with high loads so distance LEAFers can use a CHAdeMO on site and be a source of some income to offset their electrical costs.

For an office park or retail mall a CHAdeMO would be a relatively minor addition to their demand management system. When a car started charging they might dial back the A/C by 0.1 degree for 20 minutes, then resume. They might even offer a $10 or free charge with qualifying purchase at participating retailer during the evening, $20 charge during the day, $75 charge on hot afternoons, and nothing above 3.3 kW L2 at any price on very hot afternoons.

Yes, I did contact PlugIn America, but they don't have much information other than Adopt-A-Charger program (more for Level 2s). QC not such a big issue for Volts and Ford Focus' with no QC port.

This grid problem is something we need to pursue with the California PUC, along with the E9A rate problems.

There are some new PUC members appointed since the PUC decided not to address demand charge for EV charging. So it is possible they may listen now. I think it would take an organization with the stature of PlugIn America, AAA, or the Sierra Club to get noticed by CPUC.

But then for getting noticed, I have a good idea where to place a couple of diesel powered CHAdeMO stations: one in downtown San Francisco as close as possible to CPUC headquarters, and the other in downtown Sacramento as close as possible to CARB headquarters. Signs should indicate "this station brought to you by CPUC regulations."

 

[ht2]

Santa Clara has it's own power company and this is their commercial rate.
http://siliconvalleypower.com/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=6247" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[evnow]

Yes, I did contact PlugIn America, but they don't have much information other than Adopt-A-Charger program (more for Level 2s). QC not such a big issue for Volts and Ford Focus' with no QC port.

This grid problem is something we need to pursue with the California PUC, along with the E9A rate problems.

Plugin Amaerica should be able to help a bit with talking to PUC. They have that kind of experience ...

 

[gbarry42]

Even Google is considering installing a Quick Charge on their campus per presentation on Dec. 3rd. I assume they are such a large electricity consumer, adding a DC QC may not affect their already high load that much?

Google has some on-site generation via Bloom Boxes. These things use natural gas in a fuel-cell configuration (rather than running an engine-generator) and the efficiency is higher. What I don't know is if they get a significant percentage of their power this way, or if they're just playing with it.

 

[gbarry42]

I saw this in the original post. I searched the thread for "pilot" (signal) but didn't see it.

1. Find a DC quick charger that is designed to either operate on less than 20kW, or is adjustable, or can be modified in some way to not exceed 20kW.

There's evidence that the Quick Charger pays attention to what the car says (we've seen that the timer has some control). So if there's J1772-style pilot signal that is respected, you could construct a little box that tells the charger, "hey, I can only take a 20KW charge". Or maybe it works the other way, where it tells the car, "I'm just a 20KW charger, please go easy on me". If so, you can limit the charge rate. The tech-head detail guys will have to help us answer this one.

 

[Ingineer]

I saw this in the original post. I searched the thread for "pilot" (signal) but didn't see it.

1. Find a DC quick charger that is designed to either operate on less than 20kW, or is adjustable, or can be modified in some way to not exceed 20kW.

There's evidence that the Quick Charger pays attention to what the car says (we've seen that the timer has some control). So if there's J1772-style pilot signal that is respected, you could construct a little box that tells the charger, "hey, I can only take a 20KW charge". Or maybe it works the other way, where it tells the car, "I'm just a 20KW charger, please go easy on me". If so, you can limit the charge rate. The tech-head detail guys will have to help us answer this one.

I've already stated in a previous post that this is possible and can be relatively easily done. FYI: The CHAdeMO Interface is not a simple pilot signal, it's a bi-directional CAN bus.

-Phil

 

[TEG]

Even Google is considering installing a Quick Charge on their campus per presentation on Dec. 3rd. I assume they are such a large electricity consumer, adding a DC QC may not affect their already high load that much?...

Google has a massive amount of solar panels over their campus. They might be an energy producer (not consumer) during sunny days, so they may not be affected by demand charges during the day. In any case, they have deeper pockets than most, so even the demand charges might not scare them away.

 

[DaveEV]

Google has a massive amount of solar panels over their campus. They might be an energy producer (not consumer) during sunny days, so they may not be affected by demand charges during the day. In any case, they have deeper pockets than most, so even the demand charges might not scare them away.

Far from it - those panels only produce about 30% of the electricity they use on site.