LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
Why would anyone want to trade gasoline prices they can't control for hydrogen gas prices they can't control? Same with natural gas. No thanks.
Neil - it makes no sense to you at this point because you haven't been reading and haven't looked at the info I've given you. Familiarize yourself with the Third Industrial Revolution and start to think in terms of systems efficiency rather than through the blinders of 'give me BEV or give me death'.NeilBlanchard said:That makes no sense, at all.
NeilBlanchard said:Electricity is the basis for our society working the way it does. We can get electricity from several different renewable sources. Why should we lose a fair bit of it just to split water to make hydrogen - and then turn it back into electricity?
Zythryn said:...Hydrogen does have some advantages though.
One is as storage. If you have a surplus of solar, wind, or geothermal and you don't need the power, there are very few methods for storing that power.
One of the best current methods is to produce hydrogen. Basically, the choice is turn the power generator off, or produce hydrogen...
...Alevo, a privately held Swiss company, says it has managed to solve many of the problems usually associated with large-scale batteries, and can transform power grids by providing a cost-effective way to meet demand at peak times with lower pollution than other technologies...
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/11/20141101-doesbir.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;DOE SBIR/STTR Release 2 topics includes fuel-cell hybrid trucks and QC devices for PEM fuel cells
I don't disagree with you about batteries - this is only one company with profitable battery systems for grid stabilization. I've linked to a Berlin company, and I'm sure we know about Tesla batteries and Nissan's plans. But this is NOT the same as hydrogen storage for national or continental energy needs.edatoakrun said:Zythryn said:...Hydrogen does have some advantages though.
One is as storage. If you have a surplus of solar, wind, or geothermal and you don't need the power, there are very few methods for storing that power.
One of the best current methods is to produce hydrogen. Basically, the choice is turn the power generator off, or produce hydrogen...
I think not. For example:
Batteries developed for grid stabilization
...Alevo, a privately held Swiss company, says it has managed to solve many of the problems usually associated with large-scale batteries, and can transform power grids by providing a cost-effective way to meet demand at peak times with lower pollution than other technologies...
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/2ea8fbe8-5dec-11e4-897f-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=engage/email/topic/reg/topics/crm&utm_source=reg&utm_medium=email&utm_term=topic&utm_campaign=topics&siteedition=uk#axzz3HpTulyrO" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18363" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I wrote a longer reply to this yesterday but it seems to have disappeared, so here's a second try. Tony, you say if you "put electricity in it, it's electricity powered". Since that electricity has to be generated somehow, ISTM that what you're really saying is that as long as the electricity isn't generated in close proximity, in your opinion it's "electricity (sic) powered". That raises the question, at what minimum proximity between the generating source and the electric motor does an EV cease to be "electricity powered", and thus (by your definition) is no longer an EV?TonyWilliams said:AndyH said::shock: A car that is electric powered is not an EV?! An electric vehicle is not an electric vehicle? And you offer that as an example of agreeing on basic terms?TonyWilliams said:Can we all agree on basic terms so that this doesn't keep popping up?
I'm not sure how important it is that hydrogen is a storage medium and not fuel to the subject of hydrogen "refuled" cars.
A car that is electric powered doesn't make it an EV, since there are very specific differences that ARE important to this discussion.
How about we stick with that actually refueling medium as the naming protocol?
I guess it was too much to ask. Yes, you'd have to slightly adjust your thinking so that we could spend less time debating BS issues, and more of the core ones.
If I put hydrogen in it, it's hydrogen powered.
If I put electricity in it, if electricity powered.
Yes, that's the suggestion.
"Anyone" doesn't need to.LTLFTcomposite said:Why would anyone want to trade gasoline prices they can't control for hydrogen gas prices they can't control? Same with natural gas. No thanks.
Isn't the e-NV200 cargo van due to be available in the U.S. within a year? It has essentially the same battery as the LEAF, and with even minimal work-site recharging should be able to easily manage 150 miles per day. Moreover, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a 48-kWh is being designed for it as we, er, write. So it's not only planned, but it's on the road now in other countries, and soon to be on the road 'here'. If they do/market it right, and with 'EV-awareness' growing, I think there could be a lot of demand for it.AndyH said:... or any of the other bazillion mandatory transportation events that cannot be conducted by ANY BEV currently on the road or planned.
Compare either the NV200 or an S Pickup and their range capability carrying a ton with a Ford F150 carrying a ton. That's the problem. It's not about getting 1 pax to and from work in the HOV lane...mbender said:Isn't the e-NV200 cargo van due to be available in the U.S. within a year? It has essentially the same battery as the LEAF, and with even minimal work-site recharging should be able to easily manage 150 miles per day. Moreover, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a 48-kWh is being designed for it as we, er, write. So it's not only planned, but it's on the road now in other countries, and soon to be on the road 'here'. If they do/market it right, and with 'EV-awareness' growing, I think there could be a lot of demand for it.AndyH said:... or any of the other bazillion mandatory transportation events that cannot be conducted by ANY BEV currently on the road or planned.
And following soon after its production ramps up, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Tesla designs a truck (body) around its S or '3' platform. I think they have even said (or intimated) as much, and suspect that there, too, the demand-pressure will continue to increase along with awareness of the benefits of electric propulsion (etc).
Yes, it's all speculative and even if it comes to pass as outlined, the numbers would be small (at first). But so would/are those for FCEVs.
AndyH said:We have 40 years at most to get rid of ALL fossil-fueled transportation and electricity generation and building heating. How many LEAF batteries will it take to haul 40,000 lbs of toilets from San Diego to our local Home Depot?
GRA said:I've never seen someone hand crank their car or use acetylene lights on it, but it can certainly be done.
The Tri-State Antique Engine and Thresher Association grounds are located on the east edge of Bird City on Hwy 36 & Road 29. The annual three-day show is celebrated, starting the last Thursday in July. Many operating steam tractors, steam engines, gas tractors and combines from the teens and twenties are paraded each day along with early model cars and trucks and a fire engine. Activities include: steam engine and tractor pulls, corn shelling, antique shingle mill, sawmill and buzz saw are demonstrated. An early day cook shack (on wheels), a blacksmith shop, a creamery, a sod house, county school house and country church, all authentically equipped and furnished, and a swap meet area can be visited. One of the large buildings houses the Avenue of Lost Arts. Here are well-furnished models of early day rooms and many collections of antiques and displays of prairie arts and crafts. Demonstrations of many early day domestic arts are presented daily.
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