Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

[RegGuheert]

Yeah, I don't know that the conclusion follows from the fact here (bolded part above). Yes, gaseous fuel weighs less than liquid fuels. But it's also much more difficult to handle. You cannot just pour it into a container and carry it around. You need to pressurize it in reinforced tanks. The weight of those tanks could easily undo the weight advantage of the fuel itself...

...and the army just recently found a reasonable solution to resupplying liquid fuels in a war zone. The problem was that snipers would simply shoot holes into the truck tankers that carried the fuel. The solution was a new self-healing material which would immediately seal a bullet hole.

I guess they are planning on going back to the way it was before: logistics forces will again be extremely succeptible to any bullets shot into their huge targets, er, trucks.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Yeah, I don't know that the conclusion follows from the fact here (bolded part above). Yes, gaseous fuel weighs less than liquid fuels. But it's also much more difficult to handle. You cannot just pour it into a container and carry it around. You need to pressurize it in reinforced tanks. The weight of those tanks could easily undo the weight advantage of the fuel itself...

...and the army just recently found a reasonable solution to resupplying liquid fuels in a war zone. The problem was that snipers would simply shoot holes into the truck tankers that carried the fuel. The solution was a new self-healing material which would immediately seal a bullet hole.

I guess they are planning on going back to the way it was before: logistics forces will again be extremely succeptible to any bullets shot into their huge targets, er, trucks.

Ewww, I can only imagine what would happen if you fired an armor-piercing bullet into a fully pressurized H2 tank... I have to think that the lines of battle are a terrible place for this fuel.

That said, the Army burns through an awful lot of fuel in places that are not in the line of fire. This includes friendly nations as well as right here at home. I'm not saying there couldn't be a place for H2 fuel, just that you probably don't want to be sitting on a tank of it while you are being shot at.

 

[GRA]

Via autonews:

GM to provide fuel cell vehicle to Army for testing

http://www.autonews.com/article/20151111/OEM05/151119956/gm-to-provide-fuel-cell-vehicle-to-army-for-testing

<snip>because gaseous fuel weighs less than gasoline or diesel, fuel cell vehicles would be easier to fuel. <snip>

Yeah, I don't know that the conclusion follows from the fact here (bolded part above). Yes, gaseous fuel weighs less than liquid fuels. But it's also much more difficult to handle. You cannot just pour it into a container and carry it around. You need to pressurize it in reinforced tanks. The weight of those tanks could easily undo the weight advantage of the fuel itself...

That claim gave me pause too. The weight of the carbon fiber tanks in the Mirai is given as 192.9 lb. or 87.5kg. (holding 5kg/11.0 lb.), or 5.7 weight %: file:///home/chronos/u-58b72e97fb677510003d7c66a080161b9c84d4da/Downloads/2016_Toyota_Mirai_FCV_Product_Information.pdf

I don't know if the tanks would need to be ruggedized for the military (they've already been designed to survive serious abuse), but the connections etc. probably would be, adding some weight.

If they get adsorbtion or nano-storage commercialized, most of the pressurization problem goes away, but at least as of several years ago, the weight of the tank also goes up; IIRR, I saw a quote of about 60?kg per 1kg of H2 for adsorbtion using metal hydrides, which was a lot better than batteries, but not in the same league as liquid or high pressure gaseous fuels. OTOH, the weight could be very low and spread out, like a skateboard-mounted battery pack, lowering the Cg and boosting stability on rough terrain.

 

[GRA]

Yeah, I don't know that the conclusion follows from the fact here (bolded part above). Yes, gaseous fuel weighs less than liquid fuels. But it's also much more difficult to handle. You cannot just pour it into a container and carry it around. You need to pressurize it in reinforced tanks. The weight of those tanks could easily undo the weight advantage of the fuel itself...

...and the army just recently found a reasonable solution to resupplying liquid fuels in a war zone. The problem was that snipers would simply shoot holes into the truck tankers that carried the fuel. The solution was a new self-healing material which would immediately seal a bullet hole.

I guess they are planning on going back to the way it was before: logistics forces will again be extremely succeptible to any bullets shot into their huge targets, er, trucks.

Self-sealing tanks have been around on combat a/c since WW2, it's just that they never bothered to install them on logistic vehicles owing to the cost and the fact that they were fighting conventional wars where the trucks were generally kept behind the lines (which didn't protect them from a/c; if you've ever seen gun camera footage from WW2 on of strafing attacks on tanker trucks or railroad tank cars, where they're engulfed in flame, it's largely because they lack self-sealing tanks (or the rounds are too big). And self-sealing only works up to a point - rifle caliber bullets and small shrapnel are usually fine, .50 cals sometimes, but when you get into larger, explosive rounds (20mm on up), generally not. Then there are operational disadvantages: the sealing material takes up space and adds weight, decreasing the carrying capacity of the tank for a given volume, and makes tank maintenance a royal PITA. So, civilian passenger/cargo and most military logistics and support a/c and vehicles don't have self-sealing tanks. In places like Afghanistan (and parts of Vietnam back in the day) where you're fighting a guerilla war, the benefits may outweigh the cost, but generally not. The more likely that a vehicle is to be shot at, the more it's worth installing self-sealing tanks.

In the case of the carbon fiber tanks used by FCEVs,I know they've been tested against and withstood rifle fire. Here's a somewhat old DOT report (2009) describing Hydrogen tank tests, including against rifle fire: file:

Compressed Hydrogen
Cylinder Research and Testing
In Accordance With FMVSS 304

///home/chronos/u-58b72e97fb677510003d7c66a080161b9c84d4da/Downloads/811150.pdf

It mentions an issue with the Type 4 tank, which was presumably cleared up before they were granted approval in this country under FMVSS 304.

Here's DoE's current page discussing tank testing: http://energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/high-pressure-hydrogen-tank-testing

I also found this video on youtube, comparing the effects of a rifle shot on propane, gasoline and metal-hydride hydrogen tanks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiD7thxC9UQ

 

[RegGuheert]

Via autonews:

GM to provide fuel cell vehicle to Army for testing

http://www.autonews.com/article/20151111/OEM05/151119956/gm-to-provide-fuel-cell-vehicle-to-army-for-testing

The Army is interested in fuel cell vehicles for a number of reasons. First, they are quieter and smoother than vehicles with internal combustion engines. Second, they can be used to generate electricity in the field; and because gaseous fuel weighs less than gasoline or diesel, fuel cell vehicles would be easier to fuel.

Looking at it again, that last statement is utter nonsense. It is a perfect example of a non sequitur fallacy which is diametrically opposed with reality.

 

[GRA]

Via autonews:

GM to provide fuel cell vehicle to Army for testing

http://www.autonews.com/article/20151111/OEM05/151119956/gm-to-provide-fuel-cell-vehicle-to-army-for-testing

The Army is interested in fuel cell vehicles for a number of reasons. First, they are quieter and smoother than vehicles with internal combustion engines. Second, they can be used to generate electricity in the field; and because gaseous fuel weighs less than gasoline or diesel, fuel cell vehicles would be easier to fuel.

Looking at it again, that last statement is utter nonsense. It is a perfect example of a non sequitur fallacy which is diametrically opposed with reality.

Yeah, I agree, at least with the current state of the art. I doubt GM's current gen of storage is lighter than the combined weight of diesel/JP-8 + tank. Probably just another case of a marketing exec. making claims well beyond reality. The odd thing is that although Reuss has an MBA and probably hasn't gotten his hands dirty in his corporate position in a while, his bachelor's is in mechanical engineering, so he should know better.

 

[GRA]

Via GCC:

3M and Plug Power announce strategic supply agreement for PEM fuel cell MEAs; material handling and EV markets

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/11/20151115-3mplugpower.html

The article mentions that Plugpower has over 9,000 fuel-cell power systems in material-handling equipment, with 107m hours of runtime.

 

[GRA]

Via GCC:

Kia outlines 5-year plan for more green vehicles; Optima PHEV, Niro hybrid, FCV; $10.2B investment

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/11/20151116-kia.html

. . . "The electric and plug-in hybrid vehicle market will grow rapidly in the coming years, and this investment will enable Kia to meet the growing demand with a range of advanced new products and technologies.

"We don’t believe that there is any one silver bullet that can satisfy the demand for low emission technology within the car industry, so we foresee a wide range of eco-friendly powertrains co-existing for an extended period of time. The plans we’ve announced today represent Kia’s ambition to become a worldwide leader in advanced propulsion technology."

• —Ki-Sang Lee, Senior Vice President, Eco Friendly Vehicle R&D Center, Kia Motors Corporation

. . . .

Fuel cell vehicle. As part of this five-year plan, Kia is targeting a 2020 launch for mass production of an all-new hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, featuring next-generation hydrogen fuel stack technology. Kia is working alongside 300 partner companies to develop the next-generation FCEV technology for global markets. Production of the new Kia FCEV is aimed to be around 1,000 units per year, a figure expected to rise as demand for fuel cell vehicles increases.

Kia’s FCEV will feature a fuel stack similar in size to a 2.0-liter internal combustion engine, which development teams believe will offer drivers a high level of durability and power density from the advanced powertrain. Kia engineers are planning to develop the brand’s next-generation fuel cell stack to be 5% more efficient and offer 10% greater stack performance, despite being around 15% lighter and 15% lower in volume, compared to current generation fuel cell stacks. The result is a targeted range of more than 800 km (497 miles) from a single fill-up and a top speed of around 170 km/h (106 mph).

The durability of the car’s fuel cell stack and electric motor will be comprehensively assessed, with tests of existing fuel cell stacks from Hyundai Motor Group covering more than 200,000 km (124,000 miles) on the road. . . .

Also GCC:

DOE releases SBIR/STTR FY16 Phase 1 Release 2 topics; hydrogen, electric vehicles, more efficient combustion engines; biogas-to-fuels

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/11/20151116-doe.html

. . . Among the many topics listed are magnetocaloric materials development for hydrogen delivery; two hydrogen technology transfer opportunities (TTO). . . .

Hydrogen. The first hydrogen TTO is focused on durable, high activity electrocatalyst with low platinum content and low cost for polymer electrolyte membrane fuel cell applications. Conventional polymer electrolyte membrane (PEM) fuel cell technology requires high content of platinum electrocatalyst, which raises manufacturing costs. Researchers at Brookhaven National Laboratory have developed an electrocatalyst design that significantly decreases the platinum content of the cathode by an order of magnitude while maintaining cathode performance.

The selected project will meet the critical need for core-shell electrocatalyst manufacturing processes for PEM fuel cell membrane electrode assembly (MEA) components and develop a plan to scale-up production of the core-shell nanocatalysts, incorporate those catalysts into MEAs, and test the performance and durability of the MEAs under realistic fuel cell operating conditions.

The second TTO is focused on safety sensors for hydrogen infrastructure applications. The selected project will use a unique class of electrochemical sensors created at Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) to develop low cost electronics packaging that is manufacturable at high volume and will integrate the LANL sensor into a commercial package that can meet the codes and standards for being deployed at a hydrogen fueling station.

The Magnetocaloric Materials Development project will develop novel magnetocaloric materials that optimize material properties for cooling and liquefaction of hydrogen. Magnetocaloric materials have great potential to lower the energy consumption and carbon footprint of technologies used in building cooling, refrigeration, and gas liquefaction. . . .

 

[GRA]

Via GCC:

DOE to issue funding opportunity for up to $35M for hydrogen and fuel cell technologies RD&D

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/11/20151118-doe.html

The US Department of Energy (DOE) announced that it will issue a Funding Opportunity Announcement (FOA) entitled “Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Technologies Research, Development, and Demonstrations” (No. DE-FOA-0001412). This FOA will provide funding to meet the DOE’s Fuel Cell Technologies Office’s (FCTO’s) goals for hydrogen production and delivery, hydrogen storage, fuel cell technologies, technology validation, manufacturing, and analysis programs. . . .

 

[GRA]

Via GCC:

ISO 19880 – New technical ISO document for hydrogen fueling station standardization

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/11/20151118-iso19880.html

At the Fuel Cell Seminar in Los Angeles, California today, Jesse Schneider (BMW), the ANSI Convener of ISO Working Group 24 (from the Technical Committee on Fueling Stations) gave an overview presentation on the new ISO 19880 technical report for hydrogen fueling stations.

The ISO WG (Working Group) 24 committee members represent hydrogen suppliers, hydrogen organizations, local and national governments as well as automakers (OEMs) from North America, Europe and Asia. Last month, the participating members (P-Members) of ISO/TC (Technical Committee) 197 (Hydrogen Technologies), voted to approve ISO Technical Report 19880-1, Gaseous hydrogen — Fueling stations — Part 1: General requirements—essentially a worldwide safety and performance guideline for hydrogen stations and the interface to fuel cell vehicles (FCEVs). The station safety expectation, according to ISO 19880-1, will give the same level of safety to that of fueling with conventional fuels. . . .

Highlights of ISO 19880-1 include:

• General design & maintenance requirements
  Equipment & components
  Hydrogen and electrical safety
  Layout & safety distances
  Quantitative risk assessment (QRA)
  Fueling protocol & interface hydrogen dispenser FCEV testing
  Quality control: guideline for sampling frequency
  Alignment of pressure terminology and values
  Station acceptance to confirm the fueling station performs correctly . . . .

 

[GRA]

Via GCC:

GM and US Army to demonstrate extreme off-road hydrogen fuel cell Chevrolet Colorado

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/11/20151120-fcvcolorado.html

General Motors and the US Army Tank Automotive Research, Development & Engineering Center (TARDEC) are modifying a Chevrolet Colorado midsize pickup truck to run on a commercial hydrogen fuel cell propulsion system and will expose the truck to the extremes of daily military use for 12 months.

Fuel cell propulsion has very high low-end torque capability useful in off-road environments. It also offers exportable electric power and quiet operation, attractive characteristics to both commercial and military use. . . .

 

[GRA]

Via ABG:

Mercedes working on fuel cell GLC

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/11/22/mercedes-hydrogen-fuel-cell-glc-report/

Autocar reports that Mercedes-Benz is working on a hydrogen fuel cell powertrain that is expected to go into the just-introduced GLC-Class crossover. Mercedes admits it is working on the technology and has the goal of a 600-kilometer range (373 miles), with a refueling time of three minutes. The company has not said, however, what vehicle its hydrogen tech will go in.

The compact crossover is the rumored candidate partly because Mercedes feels the cost of the powertrain means it only makes commercial sense in more expensive vehicles. Autocar says we could see the GLC F-Cell introduced at the Frankfurt Motor Show in the fall of 2017 before it is offered for lease or sale in 2018. At the moment the price is figured to come in around 50,000 pounds ($75,950 US). The price of a conventional GLC in the UK right now is 34,950 pounds ($53,089 US). The Toyota Mirai is on sale in the UK currently with a retail price of 66,000 pounds ($100,254 US). . . .

 

[cwerdna]

Bloomberg: Japan's Plans to Fuel World's Cleanest Cars Hitting Road Block
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-29/japan-s-plans-to-fuel-world-s-cleanest-cars-hitting-road-block

Did not know about the situation in Japan. Article mentions
"Honda developed the Smart Hydrogen Station along with Iwatani Corp., Japan’s biggest hydrogen supplier, to boost supply outside of major cities. Only two are open for testing: one in Saitama prefecture, a suburb north of Tokyo, and another in Kitakyushu, a city in southern Japan."

Funny enough, on my most recent trip to Japan, I did stay in Kitakyushu for a few nights near Kokura Station as I couldn't get a room for all the nights I needed in Fukuoka.

At the recently ended Tokyo Motor Show, there seemed to be a lot more floor space and buzz associated w/hydrogen FCEVs, fueling stations and stuff like Honda's Exporter (http://www.cnet.com/news/hondas-power-exporter-9000/) that plugs into the CHAdeMO OUTLET on their next gen Clarity FCV than anything EV or PHEV related. What Honda's showing is similar to how the Mirai also has a CHAdeMO OUTLET.

 

[GRA]

Via GCC:

Navigant forecasts annual fuel cell vehicles sales to exceed 228,000 units by 2024

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/12/20151202-navigant.html

Of course, like all such sales forecasts, that and $6.50 will get you a latte'. Direct link to the Navigant summary page: http://www.navigantresearch.com/research/fuel-cell-vehicles

 

[Reddy]

...Finally, when all other options have been exhausted (Kind of a use it or lose it option), then we go to chemical storage (e.g., H2, CH4, EtOH, MeOH, or larger molecules). Here's are some examples, I can't seem to find the German example of electricity to fuel: http://energytransition.de/2013/06/power-to-gas-competitiveness/
http://biomassmagazine.com/articles...es-delivers-renewable-gasoline-sample-to-audi.
H2 is likely much simpler and cleaner than any carbon-based except CH4.

OK, I found the article that I was thinking about: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/07/20150715-egas.html
Pretty cool stuff, and qualified NOW for stabilizing the grid when excess renewable is present. Furthermore, here's another article on generating H2 in a similar fashion, although more feasibility study than a full-fledged operating plant. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/12/20151208-powercell.html

 

[GRA]

...Finally, when all other options have been exhausted (Kind of a use it or lose it option), then we go to chemical storage (e.g., H2, CH4, EtOH, MeOH, or larger molecules). Here's are some examples, I can't seem to find the German example of electricity to fuel: http://energytransition.de/2013/06/power-to-gas-competitiveness/
http://biomassmagazine.com/articles...es-delivers-renewable-gasoline-sample-to-audi.
H2 is likely much simpler and cleaner than any carbon-based except CH4.

OK, I found the article that I was thinking about: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/07/20150715-egas.html
Pretty cool stuff, and qualified NOW for stabilizing the grid when excess renewable is present. Furthermore, here's another article on generating H2 in a similar fashion, although more feasibility study than a full-fledged operating plant. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/12/20151208-powercell.html

Re the latter article, it's the CHP usage that's most interesting, although that's been pretty common in Europe for decades. BTW, vehicle fuel cell efficiency in winter also goes up, as they too are acting as CHP plants (as are ICEs; BEV overall efficiency goes down when providing CHP). I've seen some-years-old CHP efficiency figures for PEM fuel cells of 70%. Whether that's better or worse than a BEV that's also using the battery to provide heat, I don't know, but I suspect they're in the same ballpark. Personally, until someone finds a way to make electric space heating a lot more efficient, I remain a fan of auxiliary fuel-fired heaters for BEVs to minimize the winter range hit.

 

[GRA]

Via Air Liquide press release (and originally ABG):

Air Liquide installs the first hydrogen charging station in downtown Paris

https://www.airliquide.com/media/air-liquide-installs-first-hydrogen-charging-station-downtown-paris

This is to fuel a fleet of FCEV taxis, with the unfortunately ironic name (in English) of the 'hype" fleet, which I'm guessing stands for 'hydrogene-puissance- (or maybe parisien) electrique' or something similar. Hopefully the name doesn't come to reflect the operational reality, ala' Blink.

On the occasion of COP21, Air Liquide is installing the first hydrogen charging station in Paris, in partnership with the Paris-based electric taxi start-up STEP (Société du Taxi Electrique Parisien), and the support of the Paris City Council. The station will be located in the heart of Paris, at Cours Albert Ier, in the Pont de l’Alma public parking lot. It will enable the deployment of “hype”, the first fleet of hydrogen-powered electric taxis serving the Greater Paris Area.

First hydrogen charging station located inside the city limits of Paris, it will serve the first hydrogen-powered electric taxis of the “hype” fleet, starting in the coming days and for several months following COP21. This hydrogen-powered vehicle fleet, initially composed of five Hyundai ix35 cars, should count around 70 vehicles within a year and several hundred within five years.

In the course of 2016, a permanent network of hydrogen charging stations, designed in particular to meet the needs of this taxi fleet, will gradually be installed in the Greater Paris Area. . . .

 

[GRA]

A follow-on article from GCC, to one last month:

DOE issues $35M funding opportunity for hydrogen and fuel cell technologies

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/12/20151211-fctofoa.html

. . . The FOA covers a broad spectrum of the DOE’s Fuel Cell Technologies Office’s (FCTO’s) portfolio with four Areas of Interest (AOI), each with subtopics:

• AOI 1:Research and Development (R&D), including Hydrogen Production R&D: High-Temperature Water Splitting compatible with renewable and sustainable energy sources; Advanced Compression; and Advanced Vacuum Insulation for automotive applications.
  
  AOI 2: Demonstration and Deployments, including component manufacturing and standardization for hydrogen infrastructure (e.g., hose/piping, dispenser/station technologies); and “Crosscutting: America’s Climate Action Champions”.
  
  AOI 3: Consortia Topics, including Fuel Cell - Performance and Durability (FC-PAD); and Hydrogen Storage Materials – Advanced Research Consortium (HyMARC).
  
  AOI 4: Cost and Performance Analysis for Fuel Cells; for Hydrogen Storage; and for Hydrogen Production and Delivery.

There's a lot more detail on each of the AOIs in the article.

 

[GRA]

Via GCC:

Cella Energy and Herakles sign memorandum of understanding to develop hydrogen-based power systems for aerospace

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/12/20151214-cella.html

Aircraft APUs using solid-state (i.e. low-pressure using nano-structured hydrides) H2 storage.

 

[GRA]

Via GCC:

Linde hydrogen fueling system surpasses one million fills at BMW South Carolina plant

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/12/linde-hydrogen-fueling-system-surpasses-one-million-fills-at-bmw-south-carolina-plant.html

Hydrogen fueling stations using Linde technology have surpassed more than 1,000,000 fills for the fuel-cell driven material handling equipment at the BMW Manufacturing Co. LLC plant in Spartanburg, South Carolina. . . .

BMW now operates more than 350 forklifts to service the plant’s production and logistics functions, making it one of the largest fuel cell forklift sites in the world.

• BMW’s relationship with Linde North America has greatly supported our company’s total commitment to sustainability. It has helped BMW to maintain its clear vision to reach our goal of using renewable energy as much as possible throughout the plant site. The annual energy avoidance of 4.1 million kW/hours and dramatic reductions in fueling time has positioned our hydrogen fuel cell material handling program to be an industry benchmark.

—Duncan Seaman, BMW Group’s Vice President of Operations for the Americas Region

The lead acid batteries that formerly powered BMW’s lifts and trucks were replaced with GenDrive hydrogen fuel cell power solutions from Plug Power Inc., Linde’s associate in the BMW installation and the leading provider of hydrogen-based fuel cells in the material handling market.

BMW is able to boost productivity in two ways: reducing fueling time and increasing equipment performance. Gen-Drive-powered trucks with hydrogen using Linde’s equipment takes an operator less than three minutes, compared with 15-20 minutes to change out a battery. Also, power levels and performance from fuel cells do not degrade over time, as they do with lead-acid batteries.

BMW also is able to reduce its total electricity demand, since no battery recharging is required, and eliminate the environmental disposal costs for lead-acid batteries.

I'd like to see a LCC comparison with Li-Ion powered MHE.


Also via GCC, while I don't generally post lab results or 'ideas' here, this one sounds intriguing, although I'm not clear on the details:

Purdue, EPFL team propose Hydricity concept for integrated co-production of H2 and electricity from solar thermal energy

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/12/20151216-hydricity.html

. . .When the proposed integrated process is operated solely in standalone electricity production mode, the resulting SWP cycle can generate electricity with “unprecedented” efficiencies of 40-46%. Similarly, in standalone hydrogen mode, pressurized hydrogen is produced at efficiencies approaching ~50%.

In the co-production mode, the co-produced hydrogen is stored for use in a turbine-based hydrogen water power (H2WP) cycle with calculated hydrogen-to-electricity efficiency of 65-70%—comparable to fuel cell efficiencies. The H2WP cycle utilizes much of the same equipment as the SWP cycle, thereby reducing capital outlays.

The overall sun-to-electricity efficiency (OSTE) of the hydricity process, averaged over a twenty-four hour cycle, approaches ~35%—nearly the efficiency attained by using the best multi-junction photovoltaic cells along with batteries.

The team noted that, in comparison, to the PV/battery system, the proposed process:

• a. stores energy thermochemically with a two- to three-fold higher density;
  
  b. does not discharge the stored energy over time and the storage medium does not degrade with repeated uses, as is the case with batteries; and.
  
  c. coproduced hydrogen has alternate usages in transportation/chemical/petrochemical industries. . . .