How To Establish Electric Car User Base in Palo Alto, CA

[baumgrenze]

Is it an appropriate use of this forum to attempt to establish how many electric car (Leaf) users there are in Palo Alto, CA? Is a group like the EAA perhaps more appropriate?

If so, what is the way to go about this? Are there web experts with suggestions and organizing skills. Is an effort already underway?

The Blink network reports to us that we use 100 to 200 kW/mo to power a Leaf used for local shopping, etc. by two retirees. The city utility bills for kWhr. Am I correct in equating these and that someone is perhaps using inappropriate terminology. The number of kWhr seems to have increased by about what Blink reports.

Palo Alto has a tiered rate structure. Electric car charging, regardless of the time of day, is a top dollar activity. There is great protection for 'heritage trees' which often block access to sunlight for rooftop solar panels.

Does anyone know of an effort to change Palo Alto's apparent negative attitude towards electric cars?

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm sorry, but I failed to understand how Palo Alto is "against" electric vehicles (as the headquarters for the largest EV only company in the world, Tesla).

 

[JeremyW]

Palo Alto has a tiered rate structure. Electric car charging, regardless of the time of day, is a top dollar activity. There is great protection for 'heritage trees' which often block access to sunlight for rooftop solar panels.

Technically with a tiered structure you're paying less per kWh in the beginning of the month because you haven't hit the higher tiers yet. From the rate cost page for residential users, your top tier is 17.4 cents per kWh. That's actually pretty good in my book. SDG&E is 14c for base rate!

That being said, I'd look at your house consumption, and try and reduce your usage there. Do you have incandescent bulbs? Those are by far the lowest hanging fruit; replace with CFL's or LED's. An old (10+ years) fridge? Hows the insulation and AC usage? Computers/TV left on all the time? Get a kill-a-watt meter and start looking at everything that plugs in and how much it's costing you.

While your leaf is probably a substantial portion of your bill, it's still cheaper then that hydrocarbon stuff.

By the way, the blink should be reporting in kWh as well. kW is power, kWh is energy.

Jeremy

 

[arnolddeleon]

I don't live in Palo Alto, but I work there.

The city seems pretty supportive of EVs, downtown Palo Alto has a healthy amount of charging available. One of the new construction projects at Alma and Lytton is slated to have a public fast charger.

The city of Palo Alto also has its own electric utility. My understanding is that it has lower rates than PG&E.

So these all seem like pluses to me. I'm not surprised about the city's love for trees (given its name) so I can imagine the challenge that presents although I see plenty of solar on roofs on my drive home.

arnold

 

[planet4ever]

Is it an appropriate use of this forum to attempt to establish how many electric car (Leaf) users there are in Palo Alto, CA? Is a group like the EAA perhaps more appropriate? If so, what is the way to go about this? Are there web experts with suggestions and organizing skills. Is an effort already underway?

If your real goal is to bring together a group of Palo Alto LEAF drivers, I would think the best place to start would be SF BayLEAFs: sfbayleafs.org, also well represented here by this thread.

Ray

 

[TEG]

I live in Palo alto and own / drive a LEAF. (Had it for 17 months so far.)

Seconding, and adding to some of what is said in this thread:

#1: Palo Alto has attractive electricity rates compared to PG&E in most of the neighboring cities.
#2: Palo Alto is EV friendly with a high density of public charging stations available, including at City Hall and downtown public parking garages. The only other city that comes close on the Peninsula is Redwood City.
#3: Palo Alto has installed a lot of solar panels on their municipal vehicle storage yard. They pride themselves on being 'green'. They have a system on their sewage treatment plant that generates power from the process of waste disposal.
#4: Palo Alto goes out of their way to send me reminders to conserve since they see I am a heavy energy user. (I basically ignore that since it is the EV charging that puts me into the 'gross power user' category.)
#5: Palo Alto is in the process of getting ready to install CHAdeMO quick charging for LEAF users.

I think you are 'barking up the wrong tree' if you are being critical of your EV experience here.


And yes, monthly energy tracking should be in kWh, not kW. Blink may be mis-reporting things.

 

[TEG]

Based on what I know, I would think Palo Alto could be in the running for "most LEAFs per capita" as well. You see them all over the place routinely. Other areas they are still rare to see. A Nissan chart I saw at a meeting showed the SF bay area as the highest density LEAF region, and also the highest average montly mileage driven for a typical LEAF driver.

 

[baumgrenze]

Please allow me to establish my perspective:

Like others in Palo Alto, I pay a tiered rate.

9.6¢/kWh for less than 300 kWh per month,
13.1¢/kWh for 301-600 kWh per month, and
17.4¢/kWh for anything in excess of 600 kWh per month.

In 2011, before buying the Leaf my monthly usage was 400-600 kWhr/month. The Leaf has increased it by 100 - 200 kWhr/mo. Logic tells me that I am paying at the highest tier rate in at least some months.

I don't have (would seldom benefit from) an air conditioner. We don't leave the TV on all day. It is a flat panel that is used to track the playing of CDs on the DVD player (the only mode) and perhaps 2 hours of TV per week. It is 'plugged in' so there is a parasitic load. The house has a lot of parasitic power supplies. The lighting is less than 10% incandescent, mostly where dimming is important.

I balk at being put in the same rate tier as someone with a McMansion with multiple TVs, always playing, air conditioning on all summer, a sump pump running to keep water out of the home theater in the basement, etc.

There is no incentive to charge off-peak. Palo Alto does not have smart meters. My guess is that it is unlikely to get them given the hostility to cell phone towers because of their 'radiation' problem.

I'd like to be able to give Palo Alto Utilities access to my Blink account and to pay 9.6 cents/kWhr for the power used to charge the car. That is of far more value to me than a 'free' charging port in a garage downtown that is likely used by someone commuting in from elsewhere in the area.

Help me see where my logic is faulty.

 

[arnolddeleon]

Wow those are awesome rates. You should look at PG&E rates.

In any case it appears that the City of Palo Alto is considering time of use metering.

See

http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/gov/depts/utl/residents/sustainablehome/electric_vehicles/default.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

arnold

 

[cwerdna]

Wow those are awesome rates. You should look at PG&E rates.

Yep. OP should look at E-1 schedule under residential at http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/electric.shtml#RESELEC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

From http://www.pge.com/myhome/customerservice/financialassistance/medicalbaseline/understand/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, I'm in area X and have gas and electric so my summer baseline is 11.0 kwh/day and winter is 11.7.

OP would love the rates at http://www.seattle.gov/light/accounts/rates/ac5_erps24.htm#rsc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or fall over at the rates at http://www.douglaspud.org/Service/2012RatesJuly12012.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. (Ignore demand charges, unless for some reason more has a 50 KW load at a time.)

OP should buy a http://www.p3international.com/products/special/p4400/p4400-ce.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or something similar, such as one of their fancier models to help w/reducing power consumption around the house. It's one of the best ~$20 gadgets I've ever bought.

Side note: Some of the people who keep bringing up the much lower operating cost of EVs happen to live in areas of very cheap electricity (e.g. WA and OR) and not where it's expensive. It's cheap for them, not necessarily for everyone else.

 

[JeremyW]

I don't have (would seldom benefit from) an air conditioner. We don't leave the TV on all day. It is a flat panel that is used to track the playing of CDs on the DVD player (the only mode) and perhaps 2 hours of TV per week. It is 'plugged in' so there is a parasitic load. The house has a lot of parasitic power supplies. The lighting is less than 10% incandescent, mostly where dimming is important.

If this is the case, then your biggest electric user besides the leaf is probably going to be your refrigerator. If you have one that's over 10-15 years old, consider replacing it. Not all flat screens are created equal: plasma tv's do draw a good amount of power. Parasitic power supplies do add up. I highly recommend you get a kill-a-watt meter. "A lot" is how many kWh? With a meter, you'll know for sure.

I balk at being put in the same rate tier as someone with a McMansion with multiple TVs, always playing, air conditioning on all summer, a sump pump running to keep water out of the home theater in the basement, etc.

While you may just hit the upper teir with your leaf, someone who's sucking down the electrons will have much of their usage at the higher rate. The way tiered structure works is that the biggest users subsidize the smallest, so they're actually paying to keep everyone's base rate low. As far as TOU rates, while it is a bummer that you can't get them in your area, I think you're only looking at the positives of the nighttime rate for the car, and not the 400kWh that you'll be needing during the daylight hours. With time of use, you are going to be paying more during peak, sometimes a lot more. If you're mostly active during the day and don't have much usage at night besides your car, your overall bill could be more money.

Jeremy

 

[davewill]

200kWh * $0.17 = $34

You're whining over a MAX of $34 bucks a month to run your car? That won't quite buy even one tankful for a Prius. Can't really feel your pain, dude.