100A Second Service Entrance and Palo Alto

[baumgrenze]

I qualified for an EV Project Blink Installation. I signed and dated the contract. They sent out an electrician to prepare the installation estimate. Today I got the estimate. I'd been forewarned by the electrician to expect problems from the Palo Alto Planning Department. She was correct.

On my 200A service entrance (rear of the house), installed last just year, I have a 240V/50A breaker and #6 wiring running from it to my garage. I also have a new 120V/20A circuit from the SE to the garage that is currently not being used.

Do I understand correctly that the Blink requires only a 240V/40A? The EV Project electrician was told by the Palo Alto Planning Department that my wiring is inadequate and that I must install a separate 100A service entrance and run conduit from it, diagonally across the house, to the desired installation location. I read in a recent post that my intended installation location, on the outside of the house, might also be disqualified because the city requires that it be installed in a covered location:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5930" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would like to take advantage of the "free Blink installation," but question the wisdom of paying $1510 out of pocket for it to keep a city planner happy. Having run this search:

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&complete=0&biw=1024&bih=557&q=site%3Awww.mynissanleaf.com++blink+problems&btnG=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and having found this thread:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3092" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

perhaps I should just view this as an opportunity to avoid a bunch of headaches.

I believe that I can easily keep the car charged using level-1 charging on an existing 110V outlet as we seldom plan trips longer than 15 miles one-way.

I am also considering the EVSE upgrade. Am I correct that does not have, and probably never will have, UL certification?

The 240V/50A circuit to the garage currently terminates in a sub-service box containing one 240V/20A breaker and two 120V/20A breakers wired to garage shop lights, outlets (one supports a garage refrigerator.) The 240V/20A circuit is presently unused but would need to be extended to the opposite side of the garage to be useful. This is a pretty doable project that ought not cost $1500.

Has anyone else experienced this bureaucratic demand?

Can the City of Palo Alto Planning Department insist that Level-1 charging is not permitted and require this installation as part of the ownership of an electric car?

Thanks,

baumgrenze

 

[Aeolus]

Send an email to the Mayor, and ask why PA is the only city that is making such absurd requirements for advanced technology. He is a Microsoft employee and pretty young, with a strong Wesleyan/harvard education.

You may be surprised at the response you will receive. Surprisingly, local electeds read and respond to email, and this is probably not any policy that was ever knowinglynadopted. I would add in information about UL approval, the personal protection buily into evse's and compliance with the national electrical code.

As an aside, if you have any work that was done without permits, or plan any major renovations, you may not want to go to war with the building department, because they can and probably will get even. My local city mde me install a useless cut off switch, but I didn't complain.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Convert your LEAF EVSE and forget Blink and the city.

 

[TEG]

...Do I understand correctly that the Blink requires only a 240V/40A?...

Yes, the Blink does because it is capable of letting vehicles pull 30amps continuous, and so the breaker needs to be a bit bigger. But your LEAF will only use 16A max with the current generation's wimpy little 3.3kW charger. So you could install an L6-20 with a 20A 240V breaker, and use the modified EVSE to charge at full rate. Having the 40A breaker, and Blink provided is even a bit "overkill" but could future proof you for some other EV you get later that can charge at 6.6kW.

 

[Spies]

...Do I understand correctly that the Blink requires only a 240V/40A?...

The Blink can be set to draw 12A, 16A and 24A suitable for 15A, 20A and 30A circuits as well as the max 30A for 40A circuits. The current Leaf only draws about 16A max so you would not be limiting the charge speed if the Blink was set to 16A suitable for your available 240V/20A circuit.

I should add that the Blink comes standard with a NEMA 6-50 plug. At least mine did.

I am also adding that even though my Blink manual says it can be set to the mentioned current ratings it does not say how to actually set them. Hmm.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

...Do I understand correctly that the Blink requires only a 240V/40A?...

The Blink can be set to draw 12A, 16A and 24A suitable for 15A, 20A and 30A circuits as well as the max 30A for 40A circuits. The current Leaf only draws about 16A max so you would not be limiting the charge speed if the Blink was set to 16A suitable for your available 240V/20A circuit.

I should add that the Blink comes standard with a NEMA 6-50 plug. At least mine did.

I am also adding that even though my Blink manual says it can be set to the mentioned current ratings it does not say how to actually set them. Hmm.

Just setting the current level to a lower value I don't believe will be enough for the inspectors. You'll need to get Blink to issue a new nameplate for the charger that shows the lower current. When you size circuits, you read the nameplates of the devices and use the maximum current there to size the circuit.

 

[Spies]

Just setting the current level to a lower value I don't believe will be enough for the inspectors. You'll need to get Blink to issue a new nameplate for the charger that shows the lower current. When you size circuits, you read the nameplates of the devices and use the maximum current there to size the circuit.

Well if that is the case when it comes to Palo Alto inspectors I suggest just dropping out of the program, install an L6-20 socket on the unused 20A/240V circuit and have the Nissan supplied EVSE upgraded to 16A/240V.

 

[kevin672]

You could also skip the city all together by having an electrician install the line for the Blink charger THEN have your Blink assessment done (or re-done). They'll be able to say "Hey, there's already an acceptable line here, so we don't have to pull any permits" and just install the free unit. That's what they wanted to do in my case, because I already had a 220 30amp line for my air compressor. I had them pull permits and install a new line because I didn't want to lose the one for the air compressor. I also wanted the second meter to take advantage of SDG&E's EV TOU rates, and SDG&E won't install the second meter without a permit.

So if you don't need a second meter, you can skip the hassle. If the city is already involved, it might be too late though. It's really sad when a process that was put in place to ensure safety gets co-opted by ill informed bureaucrats.

 

[davewill]

Well, you DON'T have enough capacity for the Blink on your subpanel (240v50a - 2x120v20a = 240v30a left), so it makes perfect sense they are making you upgrade the subpanel.

I'm in the EV Project, but it doesn't sound worth it in your case. The Blink just isn't that great, to be honest...definitely not worth $1500. I echo the others...have an electrician install a 240v 20a receptacle on your existing circuit, then either upgrade your L1 EVSE or install one of the SPX PowerXpress units if you'd rather keep your L1 (upgraded or not) in the car (my preference).

 

[baumgrenze]

This was resolved without installation of a second line. The Planning Department did insist on having the entire 50A/240V subpanel dedicated to serving the EVSE. I managed to convince the installer/inspector that it was OK to install a 120V line in the conduit and a standard receptacle next to the Blink for L1 charging. I've not needed it.

We had some issues with the original Blink unit. It proved to be a bad meter and the unit was swapped out. The unit charged the car from day 1 onwards, it just failed to measure usage and report it. I'm happy with the way it is working now. Sprig Electric, Ecotality's installer out of San Jose did first rate work. The budgeted amount was almost enough. We were out of pocket $183. The tentative minimum tax calculation did not let us claim a credit for it.