How people use Leaf in Europe - QC as needed

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To me this is simple:

L2s are for "Opportunity" charging when I am there for some other business. I am in a Mall or a restaurant for two hours, I would use that time to add some juice while I do my business. Same as staying overnight in a motel.

QCDCs are for extending the range or for getting home.

That is I specifically go to a QC only for the purpose of charging. Whereas L2s happen to be where I am doing some business.

-Jay
 
lpickup said:
Oh, and I don't know how an idea like this could change the L2 business model landscape: Volvo's proposed new charging standard At a minimum that would take the cost of electricity out the equation and the only cost would be that of the EVSE itself. Granted, even for L2 we have a long way to go before costs are reasonable. Commercial L2 installations seem to run about $8K from what I've heard. I think a light pole retrofit option would go a long way in making widespread EVSE installations possible.
Yep. Putting a middle man in a business model is rarely a good thing. I guess I don't see much value in paying a middle man so that the electrical charges will be going directly to my electric bill rather than to my credit card.

I haven't heard about light pole retrofits but if they would bring down the cost of adding EVSE infrastructure then I'm all for it. As more and more EVs start hitting the roads the building out of DC QC stations may lag behind. L2 charge stations coupled with the right business model could help take the pressure off. Coupled with the wrong business model the infrastructure will go mostly unused.

I hope for EV adoption sake we get this right sooner rather than later.
 
Luft said:
One thing that I don't like about Blink's business model is that if someone plugs in and leaves for eight hours but for any reason their charge terminates early (say after 10 minutes) they get billed for eight hours. Laws need to be changed so that e-fuel providers can charge by the kWh.

I could go either way. True, they aren't sucking down electrons for 7.8 hours, but they are likely taking up a valuable charging station spot. There should be some kind of incentive to make them move their car.
 
N952JL said:
While that's a popular long-distance travel route, it's will only be done in a LEAF if you are extremely patient.
~snip~

Just my opinion, but it requires a different driving attitude. Think of it as though the trip is more than just the destination. The drive means just as much.

My sister and I drove my LEAF from Fresno to Santa Monica and back last October, a trip of nearly 500 miles. Stopping at several Nissan Dealers and one RV park, we found interesting things to do at every stop. We took advantage of the time to enjoy massages in Visalia, long meals in Bakersfield, shopping and movies in Valencia. It took three days instead of hours to make this (round) trip, but we had a lot of fun. And we spent $10 total on LEAF electricity. :D

I'd love to see a few strategically placed QC units along highway 99 as well as I-5. Highway 99 drives a little slower, has more interesting stopping places, and fewer elevation changes than I-5. If you only make these trips once or twice a year, and you're not in a hurry, the LEAF can already do the job.
 
mkjayakumar said:
To me this is simple:

L2s are for "Opportunity" charging when I am there for some other business. I am in a Mall or a restaurant for two hours, I would use that time to add some juice while I do my business. Same as staying overnight in a motel.

QCDCs are for extending the range or for getting home.

That is I specifically go to a QC only for the purpose of charging. Whereas L2s happen to be where I am doing some business.

-Jay
I think that you are correct. I would plug in if I felt that I would be there long enough that it would make a difference and didn't cost anything. I would tend to do business there. But the only time I would be willing to pay a premium is when I really need it. And that wouldn't happen very often. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to base a business off of selling e-fuel through L2 charging stations.
 
Luft said:
I think that you are correct. I would plug in if I felt that I would be there long enough that it would make a difference and didn't cost anything. I would tend to do business there. But the only time I would be willing to pay a premium is when I really need it. And that wouldn't happen very often. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to base a business off of selling e-fuel through L2 charging stations.

I tend to agree that L2 will get seldom used if a fee is levied.

L3 however is a different kettle of fish, I believe a business could built around quick charging. The high capital and install costs are a serious barrier to establishing such a business.

Reliability is a huge factor also. I've been planning some trips this summer, but now hesitate because I hear of frequent issues with the L3 infrastructure in Tennessee.
 
Luft said:
lpickup said:
. . . . . . . . . snip
I haven't heard about light pole retrofits but if they would bring down the cost of adding EVSE infrastructure then I'm all for it. . . . . . snip
The thing is, even L2 charging pretty much needs a dedicated circuit. Circuits set up for street lighting are not designed to pull 3 or 6kW's extra (the ones that aren't 270ish volts ... a separate issue) much less double that much power, if there were 2 cars charging on the same street light circuit. I found some 120v street lights at our association, and a plug that was only hot when the lights came on. BAM, the string went down in less than 20 seconds after I gave the plug a try. WhOOOPS ... I think I hear my mommy calling.

:?

.
 
JPWhite said:
Luft said:
I think that you are correct. I would plug in if I felt that I would be there long enough that it would make a difference and didn't cost anything. I would tend to do business there. But the only time I would be willing to pay a premium is when I really need it. And that wouldn't happen very often. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to base a business off of selling e-fuel through L2 charging stations.

I tend to agree that L2 will get seldom used if a fee is levied.

L3 however is a different kettle of fish, I believe a business could built around quick charging. The high capital and install costs are a serious barrier to establishing such a business.

Reliability is a huge factor also. I've been planning some trips this summer, but now hesitate because I hear of frequent issues with the L3 infrastructure in Tennessee.
I couldn't have said it better. The install costs for an DC QC station makes it difficult to turn a profit. Especially when you consider that a typical session is likely to last 20 minutes.

And it surprises me how easily these stations are damaged!
 
Randy3 said:
I'd love to see a few strategically placed QC units along highway 99 as well as I-5. Highway 99 drives a little slower, has more interesting stopping places, and fewer elevation changes than I-5. If you only make these trips once or twice a year, and you're not in a hurry, the LEAF can already do the job.
And I think that's where the vast majority of them should be in the San Joaquin Valley, rather than I-5. The only places they're needed now along I-5 south of Sacramento are at Stockton, Tracy, Santa Nella, Harris Ranch, Kettleman City, Lost Hills and maybe Buttonwillow, plus Wheeler Ridge (just S. of the I-5/S.R. 99 junction). These are for primarily east-west traffic from the coast to the valley/Sierra and vice versa, not north-south, which all but Teslas don't have the practical range to do.

On S.R. 99, OTOH, south of Sacramento there should be QCs at Elk Grove, Lodi, Stockton, Manteca, Modesto, Turlock, Merced, Fairmead, Madera, Fresno, Kingsburg, Visalia, Tulare, Earlimart, Famoso and Bakersfield. In addition to most of these being at cities, they're all at a junction with principal highways or through roads.

After 99 (and SR.1, U.S. 50, 97, 101, at least parts of 395 etc., and the Interstates), we should parallel 99 to the east with QCs more or less along S.R. 49 where it crosses principal highways, i.e. Placerville, Jackson, Angels Camp, Jamestown or Sonora, Oakdale and Groveland, Mariposa, Oakhurst. Plus suitable locations along main highways running east to Sequoia/Kings Canyon from Fresno south. Do the same with principal highways running east from I-5 to Lassen, as well in the ones in SoCal running to Anza-Borrego, Joshua Tree, East Mojave etc., and up into the San Gabriels etc. That will give us a useful network suitable for extending the practical range of BEVs _today_, while allowing room for future growth when long-distance interstate cruising will be practical for BEVs.
 
EdmondLeaf said:
The number of CHAdeMO DC Quick charger installed up to today is 1393. (Japan 1154, Europe 207, Other 32)
http://www.chademo.com/00_main.html
For how long USA will be listed in "Other" section? USA have highest number of CHAdeMO compatible cars worldwide.

Interesting numbers. Amazing 14 out of those 32 'others' are located in Tennessee :)

Unfortunately I tried to get a charge yesterday afternoon only to find the unit in a endless reboot loop. Blink had already had a call when I called it in.
 
GRA said:
Randy3 said:
I'd love to see a few strategically placed QC units along highway 99 as well as I-5. Highway 99 drives a little slower, has more interesting stopping places, and fewer elevation changes than I-5. If you only make these trips once or twice a year, and you're not in a hurry, the LEAF can already do the job.
And I think that's where the vast majority of them should be in the San Joaquin Valley, rather than I-5. The only places they're needed now along I-5 south of Sacramento are at Stockton, Tracy, Santa Nella, Harris Ranch, Kettleman City, Lost Hills and maybe Buttonwillow, plus Wheeler Ridge (just S. of the I-5/S.R. 99 junction). These are for primarily east-west traffic from the coast to the valley/Sierra and vice versa, not north-south, which all but Teslas don't have the practical range to do.

On S.R. 99, OTOH, south of Sacramento there should be QCs at Elk Grove, Lodi, Stockton, Manteca, Modesto, Turlock, Merced, Fairmead, Madera, Fresno, Kingsburg, Visalia, Tulare, Earlimart, Famoso and Bakersfield. In addition to most of these being at cities, they're all at a junction with principal highways or through roads.

After 99 (and SR.1, U.S. 50, 97, 101, at least parts of 395 etc., and the Interstates), we should parallel 99 to the east with QCs more or less along S.R. 49 where it crosses principal highways, i.e. Placerville, Jackson, Angels Camp, Jamestown or Sonora, Oakdale and Groveland, Mariposa, Oakhurst. Plus suitable locations along main highways running east to Sequoia/Kings Canyon from Fresno south. Do the same with principal highways running east from I-5 to Lassen, as well in the ones in SoCal running to Anza-Borrego, Joshua Tree, East Mojave etc., and up into the San Gabriels etc. That will give us a useful network suitable for extending the practical range of BEVs _today_, while allowing room for future growth when long-distance interstate cruising will be practical for BEVs.

Along Hwy 50 would be nice, maybe Tahoe. And definitely Jackson, maybe at the Jackson Rancheria Casino or the visitors parking lot just down from Mels Diner. :D
 
We discussed that during yesterday Leaf meet up, and we are completely fine without QC for LEAF here in OK and I guess you know why
 
yesterday I did 7 QC's over 260 miles, stopping for short partial, mid pack fills with minimal battery heating and little wait time. a QC network is soo liberating!
 
GaslessInSeattle said:
yesterday I did 7 QC's over 260 miles, stopping for short partial, mid pack fills with minimal battery heating and little wait time. a QC network is soo liberating!
George, congrats on this accomplishment. Wish there were more QC stations in California! Just out of curiosity, did you see the seventh battery temp bar or did the temperature gauge stay at six? It would be interesting to know how high it can go after multiple QCs to 80%. That was your target SOC, correct?
 
EdmondLeaf said:
We discussed that during yesterday Leaf meet up, and we are completely fine without QC for LEAF here in OK and I guess you know why
QC would make day trips practical from Edmond to Tulsa, Lawton, Ponca City, Muskogee. Dallas, Fort Smith, Amarillo, and Wichita are still probably a bit far even with QC. But if you have the patience to drive to Tulsa now on L2, then you'd have the patience to drive to Dallas on QC.
 
I was browsing here and noticed my LEAF in picture :) It is really cool to find it here. As it was mentioned earlier thanks to CHAdeMO network I would do 300mi trips in a day, but that was during winter time where temps were 30-50 F in Ireland. I think in summer much longer trips are possible, as over 50f there is improvement in range partially due to heating not using that much energy. Trip that requires 5 QC in winter would be 3-4 in summer - I wish I could transfer precious heat to car cabin during winter :)
 
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