How did you justify a LEAF purchase?

[TimLee]

Sounds like a 2015 high miles per year lease with a plan to buy it either early or at the end of the lease is a good choice for you recmob

Trying to keep driving a diesel truck with 286,000 miles on it 26,000 miles per year is definitely headed for some high cost maintenance.

With your charging at work the 2015 should have clear cost for three years, and if Nissan got the heat resistant chemistry right it might work for five years before needing a new battery.

 

[donald]

If it is just economics there is no way to justify a new car at all.
I smile every day in my EV and that is justification enough for me.

Can't argue with this, really. However, if you push down the price of a nearly-new car with reasonable parts costs, and squeeze the seller dry like an orange, then keep it for the life of the car, then you can get good running costs. The big unknown for EVs in general at the moment is long term reliability, not only battery but all the other expensive bits.

EVs may have less parts to go wrong, but that's no guarantee your average annual repair costs will be lower because when stuff does go wrong, boy, will it hit your pocket.

 

[bbrowncods]

You may well factor in some of the costs of your second vehicle as well. An unforeseen advantage of the Leaf is the wife and I both like to drive it, so it has now become the vehicle of choice when we are both going somewhere, or if I am home and she needs to go somewhere. Her vehicle yearly mileage has been cut by at least 30%.

Talk to your CPA about lease versus buy. He may can defer some business expenses to next year which may lend to buying this year. Use your Leaf for business travel when possible. The federal mileage applied to the Leaf will be mostly profit due to its lower operating cost.

Talk to your electric company. My EV rates are half my normal home rates, bringing my kwh cost to 1 cent per mile. All I have to do is charge at night. We also made some lifestyle choices to take advantage of the rates, such as using the dishwasher on a timer to run during the TOU rates, put the hot water heater on a timer, used a programmable thermostat to super cool the house at night (summer) so that it would run less during the high rate part of the day. These and others brought our electric bill down about 45% even with the added Leaf power consumption. We pretty much think of it in terms of the Leaf being another electrical appliance.

 

[Stanton]

This probably won't sway your decision either way, but it's the truth:
1) I had always wanted an EV (not a hybrid)
2) I don't like leasing
3) Nissan was a major/big name company that I thought would stand behind their product (and long story short, they have)

So, I bought--eyes wide open--and have never regretted it. Even bought an extended (7 year) warranty, but (so far) haven't even used the "standard" warranty. The bonus is I'll end up with a brand new (probably better) battery in a year or so which will end up allowing me to drive my Leaf far longer than I ever imagined! And that doesn't even take into account the thousands of $$ I've saved in fuel and maintenance.

 

[mgs333]

After skimming the thread, no one else seemed to mention this but my main reason was to use the HOV/Carpool lanes for commuting.

That and the monthly lease payments are almost what I pay for gas, but then need to add the cost of charging, so financially it almost made sense, even before I took into account the maintenance costs, which are crazy on a BMW. That plus the carpool access makes it a no brainer for me.

But after buying it, I find add'l benefits like quiet, comfortable, pep around town and knowing that I'm helping the environment.

 

[rogersleaf]

Over the past 5 years, I've spent $39,000.00 between fuel and maintenance, insurance. Thankfully its paid for! Purchasing a newer vehicle will allow parking the truck and drive when needed only.

How do you not justify a LEAF relative to spending $8,000/yr to run that truck? That truck is eating your lunch. Seriously, it's time to move on. If not a LEAF, almost any car in the market will pay for itself.

 

[CJBROWN]

Besides, the Versa is a cheap POS. :mrgreen:

With all the incentives and being so cheap to run it's kind of a no-brainer on the Leaf.

Right now I'm torn between a FFE and a Leaf. For similar money the FFE is quite a bit nicer. The Leaf is more quirky and quaint though.

 

[dman2509]

I was looking for a 3rd car to drive when the weather was crappy. I can lease a brand new leaf for the same price as a $10-15k car and don't need gas for it. I don't feel bad leaving it outside or getting it dirty either.

 

[Yogi62]

You tow a box trailer a few times a year? Sounds like a racer to me. If you like driving, the Leaf is FUN. Wolf in sheep's clothing. You also sound like someone who wants to optimize, and you can do plenty of playing with your driving style to influence economy and range.

You will also be amazed at how much more you can hear after driving the Leaf instead if a diesel trunk. Radio on 3 instead of 10....

 

[recmob]

Racer? Quite the opposite I'm in the aviation business, I tow a 24' box trailer carrying aircraft to trade shows in Lakeland, FL and Oshkosh, WI. Sometimes travel several times a year to pick up a broken aircraft and bring back for repair. For anyone interested:

http://seareyspecialist.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I drove a Leaf for a 24 hr period on a extended test drive two weeks ago. My wife complained it was so quiet she might fall asleep driving it, lol.

I pick up my leased 2015 'S' Leaf this evening. Just had a electrician at the house last night to run 220 in the garage.

You tow a box trailer a few times a year? Sounds like a racer to me. If you like driving, the Leaf is FUN. Wolf in sheep's clothing. You also sound like someone who wants to optimize, and you can do plenty of playing with your driving style to influence economy and range.

You will also be amazed at how much more you can hear after driving the Leaf instead if a diesel trunk. Radio on 3 instead of 10....

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I couldn't justify purchasing which is why I leased...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
yep, me too. I want to buy a LEAF but the batteries need work so that is why I leased. as far as cost?? you really need to redo those numbers. the Versa is a BIG step down from the LEAF and the driving experience is....well, drive a LEAF. you will know.

FYI; Even if the gasser was free; it will still be more expensive. Don't let current gas prices lull you into a mistake.

other than that; unless your daily driving needs are less than 40 miles a day (that is commute plus errands) then lease. Wait until 2nd Gen comes out then revisit the purchase option

 

[minispeed]

I pick up my leased 2015 'S' Leaf this evening. Just had a electrician at the house last night to run 220 in the garage.

Looks like I got to this post too late to convince you, but you didn't need it. From everything you wrote it sounds like you are the perfect person to save a lot of money from a leaf. Did you end up going with the QC? It's really not needed as much if you still have a second car.

If you did get it did you check http://www.plugshare.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to see what public chargers are around your area?

As far as your concerns with the battery go, don't worry about it, especially the $5500 price. I've been a Prius driver for 5 years now (2 of my own and my dad has one) and when I first started looking I was reading all about the people saying the battery will cost way too much to replace. The key part with EV and Hybrid batteries is that they aren't one big huge battery, they are made up of tons of smaller batteries. The leaf is too new now since almost all of them will still have a battery warantee but there are bound to be places that pop up that will salvage batteries and rebuild/reballance packs as service needs come up and people don't want to shell out $5500. As someone mentioned before you can get a rebuilt prius pack for $1000 now and you can replace single cells for around $50 plus labour. If anything happens to your pack out of the coverage, say you have 65% and you need at least 75% to make your daily driving you could go to Nissan and get a new 100% pack but most of the rebuilds will probably be offering 80%+ for much less. The reason Nissan has been offering the $5500 replacement is because the new battery is the "lizard" battery and is suppose to be much more heat resistant, that package is geared to people with the old battery who live in hot climates. Even Nissan under warantee won't promise to give you a brand new battery, they only have to rebuild it so it's back over a certain capacity. Some people have said they have been given new one's but that's probably Nissan just making a guess that if they rebuild an old non lizard to 70+% it will probably dip below 70% again during the coverage period. I think that for anyone with a lizard battery when we get to the point of replacement batteries we will see rebuilds at less than 100%.

Also those planes are pretty sweet. If I ever win the lottery I've promised myself I'll get a flying boat. You'll probably find that a lot of your customers will love your leaf. I wouldn't be surprised if you end convincing some of them to buy one, check with your dealer to see if they give a referal bonus. I work at an airport and this has got to be the place I see the most EV's around, people here love the tech.

 

[recmob]

Don't sign the papers until this evening Yes, a 2015 'S' with charge package. The dealer had two nice used 2013's for sale. Both had just over 13,000 miles on them. I didn't have a way to check the battery capacity, and in my opinion they wanted to much for them. For the difference between them, I'd rather have the Lizard pack, and KNOW how the vehicle has been treated.

I drove an SL to work for the day recently, and I didn't get a thing done that produced income for me that day. Everyone on the airport wanted a hand at it and to pop the hood. As a side note, I'm working on designing a single seat ultralight flying boat that is electric powered.

I've been on Plugshare and Chargepoint checking them both out. We only have one QC charger available in this area, but its positioned a few miles up the road such that as the battery degrades I will be able to use it on the way to/from work to extend the packs usefulness.

There are multiple dealers in my area and I've spoken with all of them, as well as trying the internet for a good deal. They all seemed to be about the same pricing. The dealer I'm leasing from is a smaller dealership compared to the others, seems more personable (with everyone I've dealt with so far), and is pro-electric. They don't care if another vehicle (of another make/model) comes in to charge either. What impressed me further with them, was that the LEAF was prominently displayed right in the front row next to the road. All the other dealers I went too, weren't even sure where they were on the lot.

I pick up my leased 2015 'S' Leaf this evening. Just had a electrician at the house last night to run 220 in the garage.

Looks like I got to this post too late to convince you, but you didn't need it. From everything you wrote it sounds like you are the perfect person to save a lot of money from a leaf. Did you end up going with the QC? It's really not needed as much if you still have a second car.

If you did get it did you check http://www.plugshare.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to see what public chargers are around your area?

As far as your concerns with the battery go, don't worry about it, especially the $5500 price. I've been a Prius driver for 5 years now (2 of my own and my dad has one) and when I first started looking I was reading all about the people saying the battery will cost way too much to replace. The key part with EV and Hybrid batteries is that they aren't one big huge battery, they are made up of tons of smaller batteries. The leaf is too new now since almost all of them will still have a battery warantee but there are bound to be places that pop up that will salvage batteries and rebuild/reballance packs as service needs come up and people don't want to shell out $5500. As someone mentioned before you can get a rebuilt prius pack for $1000 now and you can replace single cells for around $50 plus labour. If anything happens to your pack out of the coverage, say you have 65% and you need at least 75% to make your daily driving you could go to Nissan and get a new 100% pack but most of the rebuilds will probably be offering 80%+ for much less. The reason Nissan has been offering the $5500 replacement is because the new battery is the "lizard" battery and is suppose to be much more heat resistant, that package is geared to people with the old battery who live in hot climates. Even Nissan under warantee won't promise to give you a brand new battery, they only have to rebuild it so it's back over a certain capacity. Some people have said they have been given new one's but that's probably Nissan just making a guess that if they rebuild an old non lizard to 70+% it will probably dip below 70% again during the coverage period. I think that for anyone with a lizard battery when we get to the point of replacement batteries we will see rebuilds at less than 100%.

Also those planes are pretty sweet. If I ever win the lottery I've promised myself I'll get a flying boat. You'll probably find that a lot of your customers will love your leaf. I wouldn't be surprised if you end convincing some of them to buy one, check with your dealer to see if they give a referal bonus. I work at an airport and this has got to be the place I see the most EV's around, people here love the tech.

 

[greengate]

If it is just economics there is no way to justify a new car at all.
I smile every day in my EV and that is justification enough for me.

Me too!!

Problem with our culture is " the measuring container is money," which will lead to our as the worlds ultimate downfall.

 

[TimLee]

Don't sign the papers until this evening Yes, a 2015 'S' with charge package. The dealer had two nice used 2013's for sale. Both had just over 13,000 miles on them. I didn't have a way to check the battery capacity, and in my opinion they wanted to much for them. For the difference between them, I'd rather have the Lizard pack, and KNOW how the vehicle has been treated.

I drove an SL to work for the day recently, and I didn't get a thing done that produced income for me that day. Everyone on the airport wanted a hand at it and to pop the hood. As a side note, I'm working on designing a single seat ultralight flying boat that is electric powered.
...

I think you have made a good choice.
With your miles to work and charging available at work and high miles per year in Florida you are going to be a good test of the 2015 battery.
Not quite in TaylorSFGuy's high mileage, but up there.
Although Florida doesn't get near as hot as Phoenix the space coast doesn't cool down much, so heat effects fairly close to Phoenix.
I recommend collecting data using LEAF Spy Pro.
Worth ever penny.
Not sure how I tolerated not having it for my first 32 months of LEAF ownership.

Productivity impact is pretty high the first few weeks.
Even as common as LEAFs are becoming I still spend an hour or two a month answering questions.

Also love the planes you build.
Got to study more on how you fold that up and fit it in a 24 foot box trailer.
If I had the $135,000 and $ to get licensed looks like great fun.

 

[GlennD]

For me there is really no justification. I purchased my Leaf because the hardware makes my internal geek feel good. I could give a rats ass about the green weenies. It feels my current needs.

 

[recmob]

Got it home this evening. I plan on getting Leaf Spy and have already ordered the bluetooth adapter. Need to get a phone or such, but with paying for electrical work at both ends of the commute and sending in the EVSE for upgrade to 220 tomorrow, that's going to hit hard this month.

I do plan on keeping records, especially since this IS a 2015 and hope to be able help the community determine the packs feasibility in hot temps. Being on the Space Coast we do have the sea breezes daily, but I have seen 115 F in my hanger at head height in the summer.

On the planes, the factory has a wing fold mechanism just going into production, but its more cumbersome then just pulling the wings off. The first few times one does it, it takes about an hour to get the hang of it. In the 2004 hurricanes I had customers calling me to get the planes off the tie downs and store them inside. With my employee from the time we drove up to the plane we had it on a open flat bed trailer (wings stowed beneath in a compartment) in an average of 13 mins - but your hustling!

The wings split apart in the middle at the pylon. With the box trailer: Pull the horizontals off the tail, remove the prop, and roll it into the trailer. Then walk the wings inside and hand on the side walls.

Maybe tomorrow I'll pull one of the planes out and take a pick with the Leaf together

With your miles to work and charging available at work and high miles per year in Florida you are going to be a good test of the 2015 battery.
Not quite in TaylorSFGuy's high mileage, but up there.
Although Florida doesn't get near as hot as Phoenix the space coast doesn't cool down much, so heat effects fairly close to Phoenix.
I recommend collecting data using LEAF Spy Pro.
Worth ever penny.
Not sure how I tolerated not having it for my first 32 months of LEAF ownership.

Also love the planes you build.
Got to study more on how you fold that up and fit it in a 24 foot box trailer.
If I had the $135,000 and $ to get licensed looks like great fun.

 

[greengate]

For me there is really no justification. I purchased my Leaf because the hardware makes my internal geek feel good. I could give a rats ass about the green weenies. It feels my current needs.

 

[aarond12]

For me there is really no justification. I purchased my Leaf because the hardware makes my internal geek feel good. I could give a rats ass about the green weenies. It feels my current needs.

I'm glad there are others that feel the same way I do. Is it nice to save the environment? Sure. But the low maintenance and better driveability is what keeps me with EVs. It's nice to have a geeky car, too.

 

[minispeed]

Got it home this evening. I plan on getting Leaf Spy and have already ordered the bluetooth adapter. Need to get a phone or such, but with paying for electrical work at both ends of the commute and sending in the EVSE for upgrade to 220 tomorrow, that's going to hit hard this month

You don't need a phone, or a phone with a sim card. You can use any android device that has the proper blutooth specs for your adapter. I'd try searching for used phones. A nice side to this is if you are just using it for leaf spy it will still call 911 without a sim card in it in an emergency.

just 2 examples that may work
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/GOOD-HUAWEI-...Cell_Phones&hash=item1c48c51240#ht_1362wt_877

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Samsung-Nexu...Cell_Phones&hash=item43d232734e#ht_1169wt_913