Having second thoughts

[LakeLeaf]

Thanks for the great comebacks, especially the great news about the white sticker. Unfortunately, the Orinda to SFO 75 mile trip isn't my commute (no way to plug it in, since I would be at the SFO parking lot). It is just a typical trip we take to go to the airport, park for a few days, and drive home.

I'd like to know if there are any garages in downtown SF who will have chargers available!

And I too reserved on the first email day, 4/20! No clue when the Leaf will arrive... Thanks, Checkerboard

I've spent time scouting the parking garages at several local airports and finding the locations of regular old 120v power outlets. I've then sent letters to the respective airport authorities encouraging them to designate the parking spaces near these outlets as EV only parking.

If you are parking for a few days, no reason to need anything more then the 120v trickle charger. The cost to the airport of providing electricity is negligible, but I've suggested that if they are concerned, a simple "honor system" with a payment envelop and drop box would ease their fears. I'd even be happy to "prepay" a Franklin if it would help out.

If the parking of EV's exceeds the number of outlets, it should be pretty simple to have a some signs there that you can place in your window noting at what time and date you expect to be fulling charged and it would be OK to unplug you to let someone else plug in.

I emphasize how the airport could generate a lot of positive PR for doing something extremely simple and at a very minimal cost.

If you have time to scout the garage(s) at SFO and can find locations of power outlets, why not post them here and other forum members might be inspired to write to the SFO airport authority asking if some of the spaces around those outlets could be set aside as EV only parking. (This is a whole lot cheaper for the airport then installing a charging station - which could take years and years to repay through usage fees)

 

[EVDRIVER]

Thanks for the great comebacks, especially the great news about the white sticker. Unfortunately, the Orinda to SFO 75 mile trip isn't my commute (no way to plug it in, since I would be at the SFO parking lot). It is just a typical trip we take to go to the airport, park for a few days, and drive home.

I'd like to know if there are any garages in downtown SF who will have chargers available!

And I too reserved on the first email day, 4/20! No clue when the Leaf will arrive... Thanks, Checkerboard

I've spent time scouting the parking garages at several local airports and finding the locations of regular old 120v power outlets. I've then sent letters to the respective airport authorities encouraging them to designate the parking spaces near these outlets as EV only parking.

If you are parking for a few days, no reason to need anything more then the 120v trickle charger. The cost to the airport of providing electricity is negligible, but I've suggested that if they are concerned, a simple "honor system" with a payment envelop and drop box would ease their fears. I'd even be happy to "prepay" a Franklin if it would help out.

If the parking of EV's exceeds the number of outlets, it should be pretty simple to have a some signs there that you can place in your window noting at what time and date you expect to be fulling charged and it would be OK to unplug you to let someone else plug in.

I emphasize how the airport could generate a lot of positive PR for doing something extremely simple and at a very minimal cost.

If you have time to scout the garage(s) at SFO and can find locations of power outlets, why not post them here and other forum members might be inspired to write to the SFO airport authority asking if some of the spaces around those outlets could be set aside as EV only parking. (This is a whole lot cheaper for the airport then installing a charging station - which could take years and years to repay through usage fees)

The issue here is with the load capacity of the circuit and the number of people using the outlets, we have been through this before in the ay area and many circuits are "tripped" as they are not dedicated. There are also liability issues for cords and people tripping in non-designated charging areas.

 

[topaz420]

White sticker, good to 2015. Yellow sticker doesn't go through June '11, it expires January 1 just as it was supposed to do before they started messing with the legislation renewal.

Where did you get this info? Just wondering because the DMV website says *ALL* clean air stickers will expire on Jan 1, 2011, unless legislation is passed that extends the white and/or yellow stickers.

Quote:
"All Clean Air Vehicle stickers will expire January 1, 2011, unless the law authorizing their use is extended beyond that date."

Source:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/decal.htm

 

[mwalsh]

Where did you get this info?

AB1500 (http://www.californiachronicle.com/articles/view/168221)

The only shot hybrid owners have at keeping their yellow stickers is SB535, which I thought was supposed to be heard last month. This will allow yellow stickers to continue until July of next year.

 

[LEAFfan]

There is a charger now at SFO:
http://www.evchargernews.com/regions/94128_2.htm

As for electrical cost. I am on PG&E here in SF and for my GEM NEV I pay about $5 a month extra. So I figure the Leaf will cost me somewhere between $20-30 a month extra. I think until any of us have it in our hands no one knows for sure what it will be.

MaryC

Maybe not in CA Mary, but I can tell you here in AZ: .08kwh (8 cents) for me which will be less than 2 cents a mile. Right now I'm driving a Honda Civic GX and my fuel ($1.65/gge) only costs about $25/mo. (42mpg overall, city/hwy) On the freeway, I've averaged over 51 mpg several times. So you should do much better with the LEAF.

 

[MikeBoxwell]

I have to say, your range worries me. I think you are going to struggle to comfortably get 75 miles in those sorts of conditions on a day-by-day basis. If you could plug in and charge up at work, no problem at all - that top up would be enough even at 110 volts.

As a rule of thumb, my recommendation is always to work out your range, double it and that is the distance you need your electric car to achieve on the official range figures.

To give you an example with our Mitsubishi i-MiEV. The claimed range on the i-MiEV in the UK is 80 miles. I have achieved 92 miles once, travelling at speeds of up to 50mph, but using every eco driving technique in the book, except for pushing it or hitching it up to a donkey. :lol:

My wife has been conducting a series of range tests with the i-MiEV that we will be publishing at the end of the month. The figures you'd be most interested in are the freeway figures. Driving on freeways carefully at around 60mph will achieve a range of around 70 miles. Driving as you would drive any other car on a freeway at 70mph, without eco driving techniques but without using air conditioning brought the range down to just under 50 miles. Our tests indicate that using air conditioning makes a difference of around 15%.

In much colder winter conditions, the range drops further. You're not going to be driving your electric car much in the snow I guess, but when we're getting really cold weather the range drops by around 25%.

I've conducted economy tests on a number of different electric cars and I expect to be doing the LEAF tests this Autumn.

I always hate to advise people not to buy an electric car, but in your case I think you may want to try one for a few days before committing yourself, purely for the range.

 

[topaz420]

@MWalsh,

Thanks for that!

So the DMV site hasn't been updated -- WHAT A SHOCK :?

 

[LEAFfan]

I have to say, your range worries me. I think you are going to struggle to comfortably get 75 miles in those sorts of conditions on a day-by-day basis. If you could plug in and charge up at work, no problem at all - that top up would be enough even at 110 volts.

As a rule of thumb, my recommendation is always to work out your range, double it and that is the distance you need your electric car to achieve on the official range figures.

To give you an example with our Mitsubishi i-MiEV. The claimed range on the i-MiEV in the UK is 80 miles. I have achieved 92 miles once, travelling at speeds of up to 50mph, but using every eco driving technique in the book, except for pushing it or hitching it up to a donkey. :lol:

My wife has been conducting a series of range tests with the i-MiEV that we will be publishing at the end of the month. The figures you'd be most interested in are the freeway figures. Driving on freeways carefully at around 60mph will achieve a range of around 70 miles. Driving as you would drive any other car on a freeway at 70mph, without eco driving techniques but without using air conditioning brought the range down to just under 50 miles. Our tests indicate that using air conditioning makes a difference of around 15%.

In much colder winter conditions, the range drops further. You're not going to be driving your electric car much in the snow I guess, but when we're getting really cold weather the range drops by around 25%.

I've conducted economy tests on a number of different electric cars and I expect to be doing the LEAF tests this Autumn.

I always hate to advise people not to buy an electric car, but in your case I think you may want to try one for a few days before committing yourself, purely for the range.

I strongly believe that most people, if they drive conservatively, will get 100 miles. The battery capacity isn't 24kwh, but more like 30. 24kwh is the USEABLE capacity. It has an ECO mode that can give you 10-15% more so I know range will be no problem for most people, but competitors are spreading fud about it.

 

[evnow]

I strongly believe that most people, if they drive conservatively, will get 100 miles. The battery capacity isn't 24kwh, but more like 30. 24kwh is the USEABLE capacity. It has an ECO mode that can give you 10-15% more so I know range will be no problem for most people, but competitors are spreading fud about it.

I'm with Mike on this. Leaf will have better range than iMiEV - but 75 miles on a regular basis is cutting it fine.

But to OP, I've to say, if they get any charging infrastructure at all in San Francisco, airport will be one of the first.

 

[mwalsh]

Well, until we actually get to drive those distances.... I think 75 miles is probably going to be right on the money under normal circumstances (maybe with some mild perspiration) and you will be able to get 100 miles, sometimes, but you'll have to be a hypermilin' crazy person.

 

[JPC2822]

I'm on the waiting list, and already had the electrical charger hookup home inspection and quote ($2,100). We were one the earliest to sign up and reserve, but lately I'm starting to second-guess our decision to proceed with the purchase. Here are my concerns:

1. Hard to understand just what it will cost me to recharge overnight. I have a PG&E Smart Meter, no solar panels, and a 400+ average monthly electric bill right now. Why can't Nissan post the costs for their larger market areas? The idea of a new rate scale or second meter is a whole new layer of complexity; I want to keep it simple.

2. Cannot find out if the Leaf will get a yellow, or white, or any HOV carpool-lane sticker from California DMV. I have had one on my 2004 Prius since 2004, and it is set to expire in June 2011, as far as I know. No carpool lane privileges, no deal.

3. Range claims of 100 miles round trip are getting challenged in the press. I run the A/C, and heat in the chilly mornings. Freeway speeds in the Bay Area are around 70+ mph. Can I make to SFO and back- 75 miles- in traffic on hot days?

4. My electric panel is on the garage wall, is two feet from the driveway, just inside the garage door. I have two unused 220V circuits, a 20 Amp and a 50 Amp (from our spa, no longer used). I also have two 40 AMP electric outlets where the charger could plug in safely, right next to the panel. I feel like $1,100 labor, plus another $200 for a "permit", is a ripoff. It will take a guy maybe an hour to do it all.

Anybody else agree/disagree?

You need to drive the speed limit or 70 MPH max and you will be fine!
Regarding your home charging station install- call some licesned electricians and get some bids- that is what I have done! The licensed electricians quoted HALF the priced to do ALL the same work as the LEAF/ AeroEnvironment (AV) contracted electrician. Also, the warranty of the electrician I called outside of AV said his work has a warranty if three years! If you decide to try to go with your own licensed electrician then call AV and tell them that you want to be put on the "list" for LEAF buyers who just want to purchase the home charger. If you go with your own licensed electrician you will save more money than the home charger costs!

 

[planet4ever]

And I too reserved on the first email day, 4/20! No clue when the Leaf will arrive... Thanks, Checkerboard

Didn't you get an email on July 27, "Subject: the Nissan LEAF: get ready to order"?

If that email says you can order in August, there is a good chance you will get your car in December, almost certainly by January. If the email says September, like mine does, I'm assuming it won't be this year, but probably will be January or possibly February. For later order dates the conventional wisdom seems to be that you should assume three to four months to delivery.

 

[Checkerboard]

My July 27th email from Nissan states that i can order my car in September- even though I reserved it on April 20th- the first day I was able to.

 

[JPC2822]

My July 27th email from Nissan states that i can order my car in September- even though I reserved it on April 20th- the first day I was able to.

Same with me! I think and hope that those of us who reserved April 20th and order in September will still get our LEAFs in December!? I'll keep my fingers crossed! No one really knows except for NISSAN!

 

[LEAFguy]

This is probably your best source for early Bay Area infrastructure information. ChargePoint America will be installing a significant number of charging station locations throughout the bay area. From this quote in their FAQ - Level III chargers are very expensive and require significant facilities and training. Initially, only trained specialists will be able to operate Level III chargers. - it seems as though they will not be making any Level 3 equipment available. That does not mean that others will not. (I don't know exactly what they mean by "trained specialists".)

In San Diego, The EV Project has gone on record stating that they will begin the infrastructure build-out starting in October of this year. That is two months prior to delivery of the first Nissan LEAF in the area. I would suspect that ChargePoint America will try to begin their infrastructure build-out prior to first vehicle delivery as well in early LEAF markets.

Regarding potential delivery dates, September (and the odd August) orders (at least the early ones) should see their LEAF delivered in December. Still unknown is the total quantity of LEAFs available for retail distribution in December.

 

[LEAFfan]

And I too reserved on the first email day, 4/20! No clue when the Leaf will arrive... Thanks, Checkerboard

Didn't you get an email on July 27, "Subject: the Nissan LEAF: get ready to order"?

If that email says you can order in August, there is a good chance you will get your car in December, almost certainly by January. If the email says September, like mine does, I'm assuming it won't be this year, but probably will be January or possibly February. For later order dates the conventional wisdom seems to be that you should assume three to four months to delivery.

There was another post, maybe on another thread that said the poster asked Nissan about the Sept. order date he had received. They told him that the Aug. and Sept. order dates (Aug. 27th - Sept. 2) would receive their cars in DEC. They also told him that some Sept. orders could receive their cars BEFORE someone ordering in Aug.

 

[Checkerboard]

Several posters have suggested that I try the Leaf "for a few days" before committing, given the distance, roundtrip, that I'll need to use my Leaf for (75 miles). I wasn't aware of the possibility that a loaner or rental could be tried prior to purchase. Anyone have any more specifics on this? I wonder if Nissan would hold our place in the reservation queue, while we whiz around the Bay Area, "testing" the Leaf!

 

[Dav]

No, they are saying wait. You would lose your place in line.

The big rental car companies are slated to start receiving cars around February. That is all we suggest, wait until you can rent one from Hertz for a few days.

 

[mwalsh]

Several posters have suggested that I try the Leaf "for a few days" before committing, given the distance, roundtrip, that I'll need to use my Leaf for (75 miles). I wasn't aware of the possibility that a loaner or rental could be tried prior to purchase. Anyone have any more specifics on this? I wonder if Nissan would hold our place in the reservation queue, while we whiz around the Bay Area, "testing" the Leaf!

You won't get a loner. You'll be lucky if your test drive gets you very far - the dealer will have maybe one demo car, if any. He's not going to want it to be gone for 2-3 hours.

Rentals...the first won't go into fleets until early next year. If it's true that we have no further financial commitment until our cars arrive, I suppose it is feasible that you might be able to rent one first. What month do you have as your order month again?

Edit: I see September. You could well receive your car before you've had a chance to rent one. Though I don't think, as one poster said, it will be as early as December. I see the September guys getting theirs in January.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

In my situation There will be Occasional round trips up to 70 miles. freeway speeds are 70 miles an hour but i will only drive 60 mph. Trucks are limited to that speed anyway so i would not be alone. But i'd do is simply because All options have compromises. I would much rather choose. Driving a bit slower Then continuing To burn gas