Had a chance to demo a Ford Focus Electric today! *Review*

[Smidge204]

1,000 internet points for anyone who shows up to one of these events in their LEAF.

1,000 additional points if you ask to use their EVSE while you take the FFE out for a spin. :lol:

(They might actually let you, since it gives them an excuse to proselytize what they feel are the FFE's advantages)

Actually that is optimum if you want to get the best range, since regen is not 100% efficient in recovering power you should drive as if you had no brakes and depend on air and tire drag to slow you down.

I used to hold that opinion, then I crunched some numbers and concluded that it depends on how fast you're going. For example, using regenerative braking to slow from 75 to 55 is a better option than coasting, since the energy saved by spending less time at higher speeds more than makes up for energy lost due to regen inefficiency.

In other words, if you coast from 75 you will travel distance X by the time you hit 55. If you use regen, you will travel distance Y (which is less than X) by the time you hit 55, but the energy now in your battery can take you farther than X. Values for X and Y vary with vehicle and speeds of course, and there is a crossover point.
=Smidge=

 

[scottf200]

The tour was in Atlanta the day before (may be 2 tours?) They only sent notice to the local clean air people about 10 days in advance.

...We were all asking about regen mode and they acted like we were nuts. They said they had dialed it in to feel like a "real car", which I guess means an automatic. I like the way ECO feels like a manual transmission...

I was surprised to see the FFE at EVS26 with Ford not even on the vendor list. More flash mob than tour.

It seems many of the big companies are staying away from the right pedal regen. Coming from the MINI E, definitely not my preference. I think Ford is thinking about lawyers not hypermilers. Brake pedal response seemed over boosted, but I could probably get used to it. It's also early production and it may get better with time. I'm interested in Focus and C-Max energi so hope it improves. By “real car”, I think they mean not for the sports car inclined.

On the Volt the aggressive regen (Low) vs light regen (Drive) is one of the most "heated" topics on GM-Volt.com. There is a current poll on it actually.

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?13846-Driving-in-Low-Poll-and-Compilation-of-Threads" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Snapshot:

View Poll Results:

How much do you drive in Low Gear?Voters 112.
Always. I'm addicted. Votes: 70 @ 62.50%
Never. I just don't like it. Votes: 5 @ 4.46%
I switch back and forth. Votes: 32 @ 28.57%
I'm still learning and experimenting. Votes: 5 @ 4.46%

Out of my last ~15,000 miles on my Volt I've driven it all in agressive regen (Low) except for the first 50 miles <grin>. Just like engine braking and makes for smooth stops, cornering, off ramps, etc, etc.

 

[KeiJidosha]

On the Volt the aggressive regen (Low) vs light regen (Drive) is one of the most "heated" topics on GM-Volt.com. There is a current poll on it actually.

That was another thing I didn't get a chance to try driving the FFE. Owners manual notes an "L" position that " Provides maximum motor braking." and “The transmission may be shifted into L (Low) at any vehicle speed”. But warns " Is not intended for use under extended or normal driving conditions and results in less miles per charge.” (pg 264). I meant to see if this increased A pedal regen, as you mention in the Volt, which would allow those that will never agree on the regen issue to still enjoy the drive by having it your own way.

 

[aqn]

Is there such a thing as a hypermiler who never needs to use the brakes?
If not, why is re-gen braking superfluous?

Sure, its just called basic hypermiling.. dont race to a stop light,

Ah, whew! I was beginning to think I was the only LEAF driver who has to deal with stop lights, stop signs, traffic, etc. and therefore I'm the only LEAF driver who ever uses the brakes.

Advanced hypermilers will peg the Leafs efficiency meter past 8 miles/kWh. Our LEAFfan holds the record at 8.3 miles/kWh

And that was quite an achievement. But let me also point out that it was during a "100 mile EV Efficiency Rally", in Phoenix, AZ (presumably quite flat), in May (temperature of 71'F), on city streets (presumably with speed limits less than 60 mph), and requiring "a nice big yellow sticker on [the] back window so other drivers would understand why were going slower than the speed limit".

 

[nogajim]

1,000 internet points for anyone who shows up to one of these events in their LEAF.

1,000 additional points if you ask to use their EVSE while you take the FFE out for a spin. :lol:

Pay up! Leafboy parked next to them. No joy on the EVSEs, they were on tripods but not connected to anything.

The Ford folks said to use L position on the shifter for going down big hills, but not as Eco mode.

 

[Herm]

In other words, if you coast from 75 you will travel distance X by the time you hit 55. If you use regen, you will travel distance Y (which is less than X) by the time you hit 55, but the energy now in your battery can take you farther than X. Values for X and Y vary with vehicle and speeds of course, and there is a crossover point.

Since regen is lossy you cant use that recovered energy to reach the original coasting distance x. Note that even using that recycled energy is lossy also.

 

[Herm]

But let me also point out that it was during a "100 mile EV Efficiency Rally", in Phoenix, AZ (presumably quite flat), in May (temperature of 71'F), on city streets (presumably with speed limits less than 60 mph), and requiring "a nice big yellow sticker on [the] back window so other drivers would understand why were going slower than the speed limit"[/url].

Hypermilers will often select routes that have lower posted speed limits.. you can always do 5mph below the upper speed limit safely. LEAFfan probably was averaging 15 mph.

 

[jspearman]

Thanks for the review and photos. I wanted the FFE from the beginning, because it reminds me of trips to England and seeing those sexy European Fords, but simply got tired of waiting and we had to buy a new car. Don't regret buying the Leaf, for sure, but do love the Focus body. Will hold out trading our Honda Fit until I see the C-MAX plug-in hybrid, and hope the price isn't quite as outrageous.

 

[ChargedUp]

From the Jay Leno video on the other thread;

- 76 miles (3 more than Leaf) EPA rated range, even though FFE is more heavy and has a slightly smaller battery. How is that possible ?

- The Ford guy (EV program Director) said they did not on purpose provide regen on coasting option (no ECO mode perse) because they believe that a driver would use the breaks to slow down if needed. i thought that was a bit dumb, as I see the ECO mode regen-on-coasting feature in Leaf extermly useful in city stop and go driving.

Hey good catch. Had missed that discussion about not using regen when you let of the accelerator. To be clear they were talking about the Fusion doing this, not the Focus Electric.

Though you may think it dumb this is very much a feature I would like because simply driving to maintain momentum can be highly efficient. Much more efficient than doing a great regen capture, but ending up with no momentum.

For example, when traffic permits, I like to try and time my arrival at lights as they are turning green. This requires looking far down the road, knowing where you are at in the light cycle and typically slowing down long before you approach the light. I can avoid using the brakes altogether.

And there are many other scenarios where it would be preferable to just coast, but if the car to defaluts to regen then you have to shift it into neutral, which is a hassle.

 

[ChargedUp]

2/3rds full and only 37 miles left?

The NYT review said FFE's GOM is worse than Leaf's.

Where did you see a quote that the FFE GOM is worse? Can't seem to find it.

Found this quote, which was interesting:

The Environmental Protection Agency’s estimated driving range of 76 miles is spot-on. The farthest I ventured was 83 miles, with the dashboard indicating use of 19 kilowatt-hours from the 23-kilowatt-hour pack. Batteries always keep a kilowatt or two in reserve, so I probably could have pushed the range beyond 90 miles with careful driving.

Ford has indicated they use around 19.5 kwh so if he had used 19 he should have been pretty low. Unless that 19 number includes usage from regen as well.

 

[ChargedUp]

1,000 internet points for anyone who shows up to one of these events in their LEAF.

1,000 additional points if you ask to use their EVSE while you take the FFE out for a spin. :lol:
=Smidge=

Actually I did this at the Richmond VA Focus Electric event, but with a Volt.

And I did inquire about recharging and it was kind of funny because clearly the owner didn't really want me to do it, and the sales guy was like sure we can do that. I opted not to push it because the owner didn't seem to like the idea. He said something like "sure they can do it, but it is going to cost them."

The sales guy was really cool about it though. He even took the Volt for a spin, which I thought was smart because it is always good to know the competition.

http://insideevs.com/richmond-ford-focus-electric-test-drive-event-conclusion/

 

[dgpcolorado]

In other words, if you coast from 75 you will travel distance X by the time you hit 55. If you use regen, you will travel distance Y (which is less than X) by the time you hit 55, but the energy now in your battery can take you farther than X. Values for X and Y vary with vehicle and speeds of course, and there is a crossover point.

Since regen is lossy you cant use that recovered energy to reach the original coasting distance x. Note that even using that recycled energy is lossy also.

You are mistaken. Under some circumstances, such as traveling at or near terminal velocity*, it is more efficient to slow down using regen than to coast at terminal velocity. An example of why this is so is to imagine that one is traveling down a long grade:

Method A is to coast, during which the car reaches terminal velocity early on and stays there. At the bottom of the hill the car will travel a distance until the kinetic energy is used up by drag.

Method B is to use regen to slow down well below terminal velocity. Near the bottom of the hill revert to coasting so that terminal velocity is reached right at the bottom of the hill. The car will coast the same distance as in scenario A but will have recovered some energy due to regen.

Yes, this is something of a special case, but the point is that at higher speeds it is often better to reduce drag and use regen than to coast at higher drag. As Smidge was suggesting.


*Terminal velocity is the speed at which deceleration due to drag equals acceleration due to gravity, i.e., all energy from coasting is being lost to drag.

 

[LEAFfan]

in May (temperature of 71'F), on city streets (presumably with speed limits less than 60 mph), and requiring "a nice big yellow sticker on [the] back window so other drivers would understand why were going slower than the speed limit"[/url].

Most of the first 100 miles was during the day with close to 100 degree temperatures. The last 50 miles (out of 151) was the 71F.

 

[SanDust]

You are mistaken. Under some circumstances, such as traveling at or near terminal velocity*, it is more efficient to slow down using regen than to coast at terminal velocity.

I don't think he was mistaken since it's fairly implied that speeds are the same. All your saying is that you'll use less energy going slower.