Getting a free battery replacement after losing 4 bar

[nerys]

The tax credit works like a deductions of your owed taxes. So you have to "owe" that much in taxes to claim that much.

And this is after the $9500 standard deduction and does not count 3/4's of youe federal income taxes ie matching ss or medi)

So unless you make a crap ton of money you can never claim the tax credit at all!

So to claim the $7500 you need to OWE $16,000 in base federal income taxes.!!!

 

[dhanson865]

The tax credit works like a deductions of your owed taxes. So you have to "owe" that much in taxes to claim that much.

And this is after the $9500 standard deduction and does not count 3/4's of your federal income taxes ie matching ss or medi)

So unless you make a crap ton of money you can never claim the tax credit at all!

So to claim the $7500 you need to OWE $16,000 in base federal income taxes.!!!

not quite, the standard deduction adjusts your gross income, the EV credit comes out of taxes you owe.

You are right that low income people don't have access to this credit, I just think your math suggesting you have to owe $16000 in taxes is way off. If you only owe $7500 in taxes you can take the $7500.

I'm not going to look up the tax tables but it takes a minimum income somewhere between 50,000 and 75,000 to owe enough to take the full credit (closer to the $50,000 mark for a single person with nothing but the standard deduction). More if you have a spouse, dependents, or other tax deductions/credits.

I totally understand how at $24,000 you could see $50,000 as a crap ton of money and be upset that you don't have access to the full tax credit. I've never in my life had a tax liability of $7,500 in one year.

 

[TimLee]

Well one point of aggravation I want to add. Unless you make something like 75k a year you are not getting that tax credit. Its a scam for the wealthy since only the wealthy can claim it.

I make 24k. Know what I would get for that rax credit? $440 and no it does not roll over.

What a scam. The people who most need it can not have it.

I agree with you that the $7,500 tax credit is unfair to the majority of Americans that have average or less than average income.
Leaves them with only means to use it being to lease the car and if they want to own it long term buy out the lease at the end.
But a very large % of people in that group fail to recognize that in advance.

Tax policy in the US has been an immoral mess for more than twenty years. It really went to hell starting with "moderate" Democrat President Bill Clinton going along with the Contract with America Republican Congress and slashing capital gains taxes. And Mitt would not even acknowledge it is immoral. "Does what is legal." Legal can be immoral. A large % of the US companies and individuals don't seem to understand that. Legally hiding your income in off shore banks is IMMORAL Mitt.

But back on topic, the OP had income to take the credit.
And as the OP's later post states, don't like the range and are selling it to get a Tesla S.

I agree Nissan was lacking in accuracy on the LEAF range and capacity degradation.
As I have stated before their marketing was immoral.
Most were not well informed, including the wealthy OP.
And then they used the incompetence of the class action plaintiffs and attorneys to do nothing for 90% of the class.

I am proud of Nissan producing the world's first affordable mass produced electric vehicle. But ALL should shame them for their immoral marketing and handling of the class action.

 

[LUXMAN]

Immoral or not, I am having difficulty understanding the problem.
Reading all these posts, it seems the car is performing within specs with the new battery. The OP seems upset at the problem with the first battery and is taking it out on the second one.

Also, there sometimes seems to be allot of Leaf (Nissan) bashing on this forum. Most people though seem to understand the car for what it is.
I personally have 24k miles on my leaf in 18 months and still have all 12 bars. And I still take the occational 80 mile round trip WITHOUT charging. Little to no degredation in the capabilities of my Leaf. Now I know I may lose some range soon, but nothing significant in that 2 year lease window.
Once you learn the economics of it and the replacement pack costs, you can see what works for you. But with the cost of gas and good lease prices (with the credit :| ), it can be a great prospect for a commuter car. And as TimLee pointed out, if you lease then buy it out, you can capture that credit. Not sure what premium that would put on the car, but maybe you can turn around and buy it quickly to minimize the added cost. Just an idea.
The OP is considering a Tesla. Would be nice, but they have Li batteries too and are not immune to a lose of capacity with time either. 8 year warrenty too, same as Nissan (yeah more mileage) but telling that it is still 8 years. Anyone know the details of their battery warrenty in terms of capacity loss for replacement?

 

[nerys]

No its 16,000. 9500 plus 7500 is 16000

Takes much closer to 75k to fully realize this last time I checked.

I will double check it later

Hmmm I may be using those numbers wrong the 9500 is a taxable income deduction wjile the 7500 is a tax owed deduction. I dont think I cant simply add them together.

Either way you must owe the gov 7500 in tax to claim it

Fully 50% of the nation will never make enough to do so.

 

[SteveInSeattle]

Yes, there is a lot of bashing here... I don't know why we try to convince anyone of anything here. If someone wants to sell their Leaf, sell it. If someone doesn't like the tax credit on EVs, let them write their congressman. If the Leaf is not for you, drive something else. The Leaf is a great car for in-town commuting, and frankly, I love my Leaf but I would own a hybrid if my commute was more than 40-50 miles a day. With a commute in the 40 mile range you can have peace of mind knowing that your Leaf is unlikely to age to the point you can no longer get to your destinations.

This forum has useful information. It is populated by some very intelligent people and some who are very passionate about EVs. I enjoy what I read here that is informative. The EV politics is silly. There are 264 other alternatives in the US car market.

 

[evnow]

Well one point of aggravation I want to add. Unless you make something like 75k a year you are not getting that tax credit. Its a scam for the wealthy since only the wealthy can claim it.

Or you can lease.

I rate EV tax credit as better than most tax credits out there.

 

[nerys]

Or buy for less than a lease at 17k.

Leasing is simply not an option unless honda will approve me since I will surpass the mileage limit by at least three times (no mileage limit on the fit ev but my credit was not good enough for them)

I got lucky and scored a 4800m 12 leaf for $17k. Which also did not qualify for rebate since only first owner gets that.

The solution should be easy if they want it. Dealership buys the car first on paper. Gets the rebate then sells the car to consumer for $7500 less.

 

[gbshaun]

For those who don't qualify for the $7500 tax credit, and who can't or don't want to lease, look around for a lightly-used LEAF where the discounts and rebates are already taken by the original owner, and now built into the resale price. Remember, the used price is not based on the MSRP but rather on what one can buy a new car for. eg not $28,800 but rather $18,800 in CA after the $7500 and $2500.

 

[donald]

Reading all these posts, it seems the car is performing within specs with the new battery.

I've read the posts, and I didn't think anyone was debating that... are we reading the same thing?

The issue is Nissan running fast and loose with describing the significance of that specification. Is the specification of the battery one that defines the range of the car from 100% charge, or from the 'recommended' 80% charge?

 

[cwerdna]

Reading all these posts, it seems the car is performing within specs with the new battery.

I've read the posts, and I didn't think anyone was debating that... are we reading the same thing?

The issue is Nissan running fast and loose with describing the significance of that specification. Is the specification of the battery one that defines the range of the car from 100% charge, or from the 'recommended' 80% charge?

- For the '11 to '12 Leaf, it was 73 miles on the EPA tests, supposedly to 100% charge.
- For the '13, it was 75 miles, but it got bit by the average of the 80% and 100% setting: - http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1084193_2013-nissan-leaf-final-ratings-issued-115-mpge-75-miles-of-range" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but got 84 miles at 100%.
- For '14+: http://insideevs.com/2014-nissan-leaf-mostly-unchanged-as-range-technically-moves-up-to-84-miles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, it's 84 miles due to the 80% option going away.

ALL these values are at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=30979&id=33558&id=34699" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Yes, Nissan kept talking about "100 miles" of range and also reps and dealers have been known to mislead: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=13264" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Even a Nissan European exec decided to quote figures from an inflated European test, basically stating the '13 Leaf has a 124 miles of range! :roll: (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=304180#p304180" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

The mods created this poll for me: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

The OP isn't driving their car down from 100% to dead, which would be a proper measure, but rather leaving at least 2 bars on the table of unused charge and at an unknown speed, unknown efficiency (in miles/kWh) and driving loop/course. I'm pretty sure that the EPA tests aren't prematurely terminated w/2 bars of 12 left, but rather when the car car no longer keep up w/the speeds the EPA test schedule calls for at a given point in time: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/images/e/e2/NTB11-076a.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; also describes some scenarios that were in various literature and the Leaf web site.

I created http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=275421#p275421" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to try to get info from people complaining about "short" range.

 

[LUXMAN]

Reading all these posts, it seems the car is performing within specs with the new battery.

I've read the posts, and I didn't think anyone was debating that... are we reading the same thing?

The issue is Nissan running fast and loose with describing the significance of that specification. Is the specification of the battery one that defines the range of the car from 100% charge, or from the 'recommended' 80% charge?

I think the OP was. He said "if i do the 80% charge and stop at the last 2 bar, I'm guessing i'll get only 45 to 55 miles so i'm back to the same bullshit as before..". Sounds like he thinks he should be getting allot more. But you can tell everything about what someone means by a one liner.

I was saying that from what he was using, about 8 bars, or 66% of the usable battery, he was in the range of specs, as the poster above says.

The rest of my post is saying that IMO, the Leaf is performing well for me and that there seems to be allot of bashing at times. But we all need to vent, I get that. I could go on and on about the last lemon of a Chysler I had....so I understand.

 

[TimLee]

...there seems to be allot of bashing at times. ...

I do not see the open direct discussion of the LEAF on MNL as bashing.
If you read it all, you hear the good and you hear the bad.
Even with the informative dialogue there is a continual stream of people going with the LEAF without accurately understanding it's range and battery capacity degradation limitations.
They come to MNL at least weekly looking for explanations of why the vehicle isn't what they thought it was having believed the misleading Nissan marketing.

The wealthy OP was not adequately knowledgeable about the realities of the LEAF when the OP bought it.
And the OP nearly lost big $ from H & R Block incompetence in 2012.
The OP is moving on and buying a Tesla S.
The right vehicle for what the OP wants and can afford.

 

[TimLee]

...
The OP isn't driving their car down from 100% to dead, which would be a proper measure, but rather leaving at least 2 bars on the table of unused charge and at an unknown speed, unknown efficiency (in miles/kWh) and driving loop/course. I'm pretty sure that the EPA tests aren't prematurely terminated w/2 bars of 12 left ...

True, but the real world reality is that MOST drivers of the LEAF are unwilling to drive using the last two red status of charge bars.
Most don't have LEAF Spy or other tools to know where they are on those last two bars.

I have used LEAF Spy Pro now for nine months, and can now use those last two bars.
But I do not like doing it and rarely do it.
The OP is just reporting what most LEAF users utilization is.

Yes, some people do use those last two bars and often arrive home or the next EVSE with very low battery warning or near Turtle.
But MOST don't.
Only the zealous, highly informed, and technically very savvy do.

 

[dgpcolorado]

True, but the real world reality is that MOST drivers of the LEAF are unwilling to drive using the last two red status of charge bars.
Most don't have LEAF Spy or other tools to know where they are on those last two bars...

Most LEAFs now have the %SOC display, which should allow a much better sense of the fuel level of the car, and the fuel bars can be ignored. Whether a typical LEAF driver actually knows enough to use it, I have no idea. Perhaps not.

 

[Arddrea]

True, but the real world reality is that MOST drivers of the LEAF are unwilling to drive using the last two red status of charge bars.

Tim
I have been since getting my 2012 12/15/14 (used off lease) I'm only seeing a usable capacity of ~40 miles 100% to one red bar (estimate 4 miles left) (daily commute about 36 Miles), but I'm hoping when the weather warms up the capacity / range will go up.
You see to know a more about the leaf then I do, do you know if the battery heater that the manual mentions is an option? I currently have all bars on the SOH, 0 bars on the temp (4° outside). I'm also seeing 12 hour charge time from one red bar to full charge on L1. I'm starting to think the firmware is hacked.

 

[JeremyW]

I'm starting to think the firmware is hacked.

Your car isn't hacked, it's just very cold outside...
Your 2012 has a battery heater. It turns on only at very very cold temps *just* to prevent the battery from freezing. The heaters are really small.
In anything below 60 degrees outside, as soon as you turn on the Climate control the cabin heater kicks on. It sucks, I know.

 

[cwerdna]

True, but the real world reality is that MOST drivers of the LEAF are unwilling to drive using the last two red status of charge bars.
Most don't have LEAF Spy or other tools to know where they are on those last two bars...

Most LEAFs now have the %SOC display, which should allow a much better sense of the fuel level of the car, and the fuel bars can be ignored.

All '13+ Leafs have the % SoC display. No pre-'13 Leafs have it.

 

[Reddy]

.... I currently have all bars on the SOH, 0 bars on the temp (4° outside). I'm also seeing 12 hour charge time from one red bar to full charge on L1. I'm starting to think the firmware is hacked.

Zero bars is extreme cold and will definitely reduce range, even into the 30-40 mi area. However, if you only need 12 hours to reach a full charge on L1, that suggests either a very degraded battery (e.g., not as many KWH to fill) or many more miles left on the last red bar. The one time that I filled from Turtle took about 21 hours. If it only takes 12 hours, then you aren't as low as you think or your battery holds much less.

 

[davewill]

Or buy for less than a lease at 17k.

Leasing is simply not an option unless honda will approve me since I will surpass the mileage limit by at least three times (no mileage limit on the fit ev but my credit was not good enough for them)

I got lucky and scored a 4800m 12 leaf for $17k. Which also did not qualify for rebate since only first owner gets that.

The solution should be easy if they want it. Dealership buys the car first on paper. Gets the rebate then sells the car to consumer for $7500 less.

That would be against the law. They can only take the credit if they don't intend to resell. Anyway, if someone wants a new one and doesn't make enough for the tax credit, they can go ahead and lease it, then buy the lease out. It'll cost a little bit, but much, much less than the $7500 credit Nissan passes through on the lease. On a buy out, the mileage doesn't matter.