Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)

[evchels]

Daily, huh? Quite a leap from my monthly or so pace at the moment! But yes, I will be posting regularly.

Nope, no NDA or restrictions about what we say publicly, no compensation other than getting to drive the cars, no exclusivity agreements, etc. Wouldn't have agreed to participate otherwise.

 

[LEAFer]

No compensation, eh ? Can you "buy" the EVSE at the end of 3 months ? Who makes it ?

 

[evchels]

Nope, no compensation- see, told you I can't compete with Lance!

If we choose to buy a Volt at the end of the three months, I believe we'd have to purchase the charger, but that they'd just leave it there. (I can't imagine they'll take it down just so we can put up another, but I can't say for sure.) If we don't get a Volt, they take it out. And from what I've heard, Lear is supplying GM's charging equipment.

 

[evnow]

Nope, no compensation- see, told you I can't compete with Lance!

Now the only question is can you drive faster than Lance rides his bike

If we choose to buy a Volt at the end of the three months, I believe we'd have to purchase the charger, but that they'd just leave it there. (I can't imagine they'll take it down just so we can put up another, but I can't say for sure.) If we don't get a Volt, they take it out. And from what I've heard, Lear is supplying GM's charging equipment.

I think EVSE install is one thing GM can learn from the Nissan/AV problems and get it better.

BTW, aren't all initial Volt buyers getting free EVSE from Coloumb ? Haven't heard about that lately ...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20008016-54.html

 

[evchels]

Well, I can drive pretty fast, heh heh...

I think everyone can learn from the early mistakes of each other. Not sure if GM will get the infrastructure thing down in time either, though their car is less dependent on doing so. The ones who I think will really be in good positions to learn are Mitsubishi and perhaps Ford, though the latter is pretty closed off at the moment.

Yes, some of the Volt drivers will get free chargers, though all of that is about as clear as the eTec project seems to be right now. And I can't tell how an area like LA will be treated, given that it's made up of a bunch of other communities.

 

[LEAFer]

At least your "installation" is "free" (not like AV!). But once installed ... what I was asking ... if you decide to buy a LEAF, you could use the Lear EVSE. So ... could you buy it from GM (with your special "charm discount" !) ? Might still save a bundle.

 

[EVDRIVER]

50% or more

Cough, Cough

 

[evchels]

Yes, we're absolutely lucky to at least get the install- so even if I end up having to swap out the box, the line will be there. Mine will be an easy install, but still. But good point about buying the EVSE to use with the Leaf, depending on what they price it at- they've only said they'll take it out if we don't get Volts, but I haven't really dug into the alternatives. Am more focused on getting the thing in, in the first place!

 

[evnow]

http://evchels.wordpress.com/2010/10/02/wherein-gm-calls-my-bluff/

It’s true that I have basically made peace with GM as it relates to the past (though watching Andrew Farah tell former EV1 drivers- incorrectly- what they didn’t like about that car yet one more time this week was its own special breed of broken-record torture. Enough already.)

I wonder - did GM ever acknowledge that crushing EV1 was bad (atleast PR-wise) ?

 

[indyflick]

I wonder - did GM ever acknowledge that crushing EV1 was bad (atleast PR-wise) ?

Rick Wagoner, former CEO of GM, was asked in an issue of Motor Trend magazine which decision he most regrets as CEO. His answer was, "Axing the EV1 electric-car program and not putting the right resources into hybrids. It didn't affect profitability, but it did affect image."

 

[evchels]

Yes, while the company has never done an official mea culpa, Wagoner, Lutz, and Larry Burns all made some sort of public statement about it. Larry actually took it a step further than PR, and admitted that they gave up a 10-yr technological lead. Privately, of course, there are many others who've expressed regret- but there are very few people in the company that know any more about what happened than what has been said publicly and in the movie, since most of the folks who actually made those poor decisions are long gone.

 

[evnow]

Volt has a Leaf button !

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7FBtXC5Cmw[/youtube]

 

[planet4ever]

So maybe Nissan should do a good neighbor reciprocation and have a Volts button that shows the current voltages of the highest and lowest cell in the battery.

 

[TRONZ]

I am under the impression that because the Volt is essentially a Hybrid (defined by CARB) it has a mandatory consumer protection period on its batteries. The Leaf does not. But since CARB could care less about ZEV's (since they don't pollute) Nissan could have done anything they wanted regarding price and batteries. It is very unlikely that the Volt batteries will meet the CARB mandated warranty period/mileage so GM has to "bake" a second set of warrantied batteries into the price of every Volt. This fact makes GM much more concerned about their batteries (cooling, max discharge levels, etc) than Nissan and why each VOLT buyer has already paid for his second set of batteries in advance. So what does GM care then? They are charging FAR more money for FAR less of an EV (welcome to Bazarro World). This makes Nissan's 8 year warranty such a jaw dropper and sent shock waves through the GM Volt team. Nissan is matching "market conditions" (they did not have to do this) to remove any doubt about how serious the LEAF technology is. I have been fortunate enough to drive a LEAF and it is anything but cheap... did make my 08 Civic Hybrid drivetrain feel "clunky" afterwards though. :ugeek:

 

[evchels]

I am under the impression that because the Volt is essentially a Hybrid (defined by CARB) it has a mandatory consumer protection period on its batteries. The Leaf does not.

Sort of. CARB's official purview is tailpipe emissions; in hybrids and PHEVs, the batteries are considered part of the emissions system, and therefore have a 10-yr, 150k warranty requirement on any vehicle receiving credit in the ATPZEV category. Their reasoning goes, basically, "if you have a P/HEV and your batteries die, your car becomes a regular gas car (assuming it still runs at all) and the emissions profile gets worse". An EV is zero-emission in the first place, so there's no similar worry, and therefore no warranty requirement. There is a side benefit of consumer protection, but it's not the primary purpose. A few of us lobbied CARB to consider scaling that warranty requirement over a few years to alleviate the need to oversize battery packs, encourage deployment sooner and bring down initial vehicle cost, but it didn't gain enough traction.

The Volt was originally aiming for e-ATPZEV certification, and the pack is oversized to the degree it is to ensure that life. Toyota made the same choice for the Prius PHV. It is entirely likely that this practice won't continue as all manufacturers gain confidence in lithium batteries under real world conditions for 10+ years. Once it was clear that the Volt wouldn't get ATPZEV certification, GM chose to offer an 8-year warranty, and Nissan fairly immediately followed suit. I doubt they would have done it if they didn't have reasonable confidence in their batteries, regardless of thermal management, but no doubt there was a competitive issue at play as well. Regardless of the motive, it's a great thing for those who plan to acquire Nissan's EV.

 

[LEAFfan]

GM pursued a much more complex (and expensive) liquid thermal management, while Nissan went with a simpler air-cooled system. How much that matters (and in what areas, specifically) remains to be seen. ... Personally, I think it'll matter more in winter months than summer months, but these types of choices also play into the cost difference.

It will matter a whole lot more in hot climates than cold ones. The Leaf's pack relies on conduction and radiation for cooling, not convention. The function of the small fan is just to even out the hot spots.

There is a reason why Nissan has hinted broadly that the leasing is not a bad idea and why Mark Perry has indicated that Nissan knows it has to move to an active thermal management system. Some percentage of these packs will not make it to four years in hot places like Arizona. Cold weather may temporarily compromise cells but hot weather kills them.

But if you're looking at costs, as noted above, Frank Weber has said the Volt's drive train is less expensive than a 100 mile range BEV. So you can take that savings and use if for higher quality BMS system and still have say $7500 to spend. Bose stereo system anyone? Digital radio recorder? Onstar? Better tires? Special sound deadening materials? Higher quality materials? Lots of ways to spend money.

First of all, the Volt drivetrain may be cheaper, but in the long run, the LEAF will have TONS less maintenance. Secondly, try to buy a Volt for MSRP ($41K). I've yet to see a dealer asking MSRP, let alone below. All of them are at least $5K-20K above MSRP! So there will be NO comparison on costs between those two, the Volt will cost MUCH, MUCH more, and then some more on all the maintenance.

 

[ColinSummers]

Okay, but how do trolls make money?

And the one dealer I have gone to so far said they would be selling the Volt at MSRP.

--Colin
http://voltaday.com

 

[LEAFfan]

Okay, but how do trolls make money?

And the one dealer I have gone to so far said they would be selling the Volt at MSRP.

--Colin
http://voltaday.com

That's a first! May I please have the name and location of that dealer? Thanks!

 

[evnow]

That's a first! May I please have the name and location of that dealer? Thanks!

All AutoNation dealers are selling for MSRP. Also one of the dealers who posts in gm-volt was saying there are dealers with plenty of allocated Volts not sold out - so my guess is they will sell at MSRP.

 

[garygid]

Do any AutoNation dealers have an allotment of Volts to sell?