Five Reasons Why I'll Lease

[sjfotos]

Well, I don't have to decide this for more than 16 months, since I am not allowed to even buy one until "Fall/Winter 2011", however, I would absolutley Lease it, it makes zero sense to me to be stuck with a Gen1 Leaf, believe me, I have been an early adopter many many times in the past [and been burned] (owned VHS and Beta, owned and still own multiple laserdiscs and LD players, anoyone remember those?)

I don't need to own the "betmax" or "laserdisc" of the EV world. In several years, there will be better battery pack technology (read: more mileage and possibly longer life as well), so no, I don't feel the need to "own" Generation 1 Leaf.
in fact, by the time I can actually buy a Leaf, there may be many more choices, so I may end up never buying/leasing a Leaf.

Oh yeah. LaserDiscs! Had a boss who went on on that Joint Venture......that was what, 10-15 years ahead of the CD/DVD....just a BIT early and it folded.....as with most technology, 'first in' is the the old pioneer joke....You can identify the pioneer by all the arrows in his back

 

[evnow]

Please explain your math concluding that there is only a $700 difference, or add a link here to the other thread.

Soon !

All the other estimates I have seen are ranging from $1500-2500 difference between leasing and buying as far as overall cost goes.

There are lots of variables when calculating the numbers. Many of them don't take finance charges while comparing lease & buy, which is a mistake.

 

[mitch672]

Well, I don't have to decide this for more than 16 months, since I am not allowed to even buy one until "Fall/Winter 2011", however, I would absolutley Lease it, it makes zero sense to me to be stuck with a Gen1 Leaf, believe me, I have been an early adopter many many times in the past [and been burned] (owned VHS and Beta, owned and still own multiple laserdiscs and LD players, anoyone remember those?)

I don't need to own the "betmax" or "laserdisc" of the EV world. In several years, there will be better battery pack technology (read: more mileage and possibly longer life as well), so no, I don't feel the need to "own" Generation 1 Leaf.
in fact, by the time I can actually buy a Leaf, there may be many more choices, so I may end up never buying/leasing a Leaf.

Oh yeah. LaserDiscs! Had a boss who went on on that Joint Venture......that was what, 10-15 years ahead of the CD/DVD....just a BIT early and it folded.....as with most technology, 'first in' is the the old pioneer joke....You can identify the pioneer by all the arrows in his back

Yes, and my a-s is really hurting from all of those arrows in it (and money I've squandered over the years of being an "early adopter")

BTW, I still have a fine collection of "ANALOG" laserdiscs, and 2 players if anyone is interested *sigh*

 

[cdub]

Maybe. I really like this car. Who says I'm replacing it with another EV 8 years down the line?

You would have to either replace the battery or be ok with reduced range.

I am.

 

[TLeaf]

Despite the positives for leasing, I'm still in this for the purchase.. Of the oft-quoted "missing" features (6.6kW charger, heated seats, longer-range battery, etc.), none of them are a deal-breaker for me as the 3.3kW charger is fast enough for me (especially since I'll have the Fast DC option), the range is good enough for me (now validated with the ECOtality Fast DC map), I've never had a car with heated seats, etc. In truth, the only things I'm sad about are a lack of a sunroof (I've always wanted a car with a sunroof for some reason) and a leather-wrapped steering wheel, both problems that I could easily overcome if I really felt the need. OK, so the car could actually look sportier, but just as I managed to come to terms with the looks of my '01 Kia Rio, I'm certain that a few years of ownership will have me loving the lines on the Leaf.

I think what has really helped me with my "BET Anxiety" (Bleeding Edge Technology) is going with a big name like Nissan (as opposed to Aptera or Coda) and having owned an EV. True, other manufacturers will be coming out with their own BEVs in the upcoming years, but the production numbers aren't set (may be limited release initially), the cars may look/drive/feel terrible, the cost may be even higher (if I can't afford a Volvo now, I doubt I could afford a BEV Volvo) and a lot of the same concerns will still exist (are the electronics reliable? will the batteries last 8 years?). By the time all of this settles down to reliable, semi-affordable, widely available BEVs, I think my Leaf will be a good 15 years old and ready for sale to some teenager as their first car..

I like to think of the Leaf as the Honda Insight of the hybrid market: early to the party and still going strong. After all, have you seen the re-sale value on a used high-mileage 1st gen Insight???

 

[JPVLeaf]

After all, have you seen the re-sale value on a used high-mileage 1st gen Insight???

No, how is it?

 

[trentr]

i've never leased before so correct me if i'm wrong but from my calculation it will cost ~$15,600 to lease for 3 yrs compared to $23K or so for buying it out right in CA and owning it for as long as I want. if this is the case, i'm certainly buying it. i don't see the logic of spending $15K and gone in 3 yrs.

 

[evnow]

By the time all of this settles down to reliable, semi-affordable, widely available BEVs, I think my Leaf will be a good 15 years old and ready for sale to some teenager as their first car..
...
I like to think of the Leaf as the Honda Insight of the hybrid market: early to the party and still going strong. After all, have you seen the re-sale value on a used high-mileage 1st gen Insight???

I think the big difference is usability i.e. a 15 year old BEV without a battery upgrade may be nearly useless.

 

[DarkStar]

After all, have you seen the re-sale value on a used high-mileage 1st gen Insight???

No, how is it?

Hmm... Kelley Blue Book says $5,625 for a 2000 Honda Insight with 160,000 miles...

 

[trentr]

Well, I don't have to decide this for more than 16 months, since I am not allowed to even buy one until "Fall/Winter 2011", however, I would absolutley Lease it, it makes zero sense to me to be stuck with a Gen1 Leaf, believe me, I have been an early adopter many many times in the past [and been burned] (owned VHS and Beta, owned and still own multiple laserdiscs and LD players, anoyone remember those?)

I don't need to own the "betmax" or "laserdisc" of the EV world. In several years, there will be better battery pack technology (read: more mileage and possibly longer life as well), so no, I don't feel the need to "own" Generation 1 Leaf.
in fact, by the time I can actually buy a Leaf, there may be many more choices, so I may end up never buying/leasing a Leaf.

You can't compare the LEAF to obsolete players like betamax or laserdisc. That's certainly apples and oranges. The electric company will not stop producing electricity anytime soon. There will always be electricity to power the LEAF. Now for HD-DVD disc, ZERO manufacturers! You can't even use it to watch new movies. Also, there will always be something better in the future, so that means you will always lease no matter what EV comes out.

 

[Ready2plugin]

Well, I don't have to decide this for more than 16 months, since I am not allowed to even buy one until "Fall/Winter 2011", however, I would absolutley Lease it, it makes zero sense to me to be stuck with a Gen1 Leaf, believe me, I have been an early adopter many many times in the past [and been burned] (owned VHS and Beta, owned and still own multiple laserdiscs and LD players, anoyone remember those?)

I don't need to own the "betmax" or "laserdisc" of the EV world. In several years, there will be better battery pack technology (read: more mileage and possibly longer life as well), so no, I don't feel the need to "own" Generation 1 Leaf.
in fact, by the time I can actually buy a Leaf, there may be many more choices, so I may end up never buying/leasing a Leaf.

You can't compare the LEAF to obsolete players like betamax or laserdisc. That's certainly apples and oranges. The electric company will not stop producing electricity anytime soon. There will always be electricity to power the LEAF. Now for HD-DVD disc, ZERO manufacturers! You can't even use it to watch new movies. Also, there will always be something better in the future, so that means you will always lease no matter what EV comes out.

I total agree with you. The only thing I like about the lease is that it takes some of the question off about the resale. If for some reason there is a greater depreciation than expected, you have an out. If it's not, and you love the car, buy it at the end of the lease and you then own it. It's a $750-1,200 insuance policy. I normally own cars for 10+ years, so this is actually the first time I'm thinking about leasing. I'll probably be on the fence until Nissan comes out with all the final warranty and leasing information....

 

[IBELEAF]

If there is ONLY $700 difference then it might be a good option for some, but I highly doubt this is really the case. Also, if this is about saving money and you plan to replace cars every 3 years you'll be loosing a lot of money regardless of the car's residual. You buy a car and keep it for as long as you can to get the most out of it.

 

[mitch672]

I have owned 3 Toyota Prius's, Gen 1: 2002, Gen 2: 2004, and now the Gen 3: 2010

I paid cash for all of them, never leased. They all had very good resale value, because I sold them either
way before the next generation model came out (the 2002 is an exmaple of this), or way after, and just traded in the 2004 with high mileage on it. I am not opposed to buying cars, I am just opposed to buying a pig in a poke, which the Leaf after 3-6 years could certainly turn out to be. the battery life is an unknown, as well as it's replacement cost.

Leasing is a way to spend less on the car, and not be commited to it for more than the lease time, and limit your financial exposure. I feel that is needed with the first mass produced EV, if you don't good for you, I like to hedge my bets. Also, I will not be selling my Prius, if the Leaf proves to have issues, I would rather still have a 50mpg vehicle availble.

 

[LEAFfan]

Usually everyone is told
- Leasing is more expensive
- Leasing is only when you want to drive a car more expensive than you can afford since the lease payment is smaller than finance

But, Leaf is unlike any other car you could buy in the last 100 years. So, first thing to do is to throw out those thumb rules and go back to basics.

1. EVs are a new technology just on the cusp of new inventions / rapid development.

Yes, we all know EVs are a hundred year old technology. But the battery technologies being researched now are new. There is atremendous amount of research money that is pouring into battery research and at least some of them will bear fruit. So when this happens do you really want to be left holding a car you can't unload on anyone ?

2. In 3 years every major automaker is lanunch an EV - Toyota, BMW, Infinity, Audi, Mercedes, VW, Hyundai, Volvo and even Honda.

We have exactly one highway capable, affordable EV now. Yes, I know about Coda. But we are being serious here. In 3 years we will have real, wide choices. Even Leaf gen 2, perhaps. I know we can sell the car even if we buy & get a new one. But, atleast in my family that would be a tough sell ...

3. Battery

Yes, we all know about the 8 year warranty. But we don't know what that really means. Do we really want to fight with the dealers over the small letters ? I'm not looking forward to any such conversation.

4. Missing Features

There are some features I miss in Leaf - Heated seats, 6.6 KW charger, an elegant exterior for eg. You can pick your favorite missing feature.

5. Range

While 100 miles is more than enough for me now, with a larger range that I expect will be available in 3 years, I can potentially roam up and down the I-5, atleast. Currently a 80% charge in 30 minutes essentially reduces our distance travelled to 70 or even less miles every 1 and 1/2 hours. It would be difficult to reach Portland, let alone San Francisco.

Cost :

So what do we lose if we lease - apart from the ability to mod ? Some money.

Comparing Lease vs Buy for disposing the car after 3 years, using NPV method, the buy & sell method is cheaper by $700 (I'll open a separate thread to explain this). But even in that there is big a risk that you won't be able to sell the car for the same price as the residual.

But I consider $700 a small price to pay for this good insurance policy called Lease.

I believe that $700 so called loss depends on whether the buyer can take the full $7500 tax credit. Otherwise, leasing is actually much less. That's why I'm leasing, so I can take the full fed credit.

 

[planet4ever]

i've never leased before so correct me if i'm wrong but from my calculation it will cost ~$15,600 to lease for 3 yrs compared to $23K or so for buying it out right in CA and owning it for as long as I want. if this is the case, i'm certainly buying it. i don't see the logic of spending $15K and gone in 3 yrs.

For something closer to an apples-to-apples comparison, try calculating how much it will cost you to buy with $2000 down (on a $36K purchase, since you won't have any rebate or tax credit yet) and an 84 month loan, pay on the loan for three years with an extra $7.5K payment when you get your credit, and then sell the car. Even that isn't exactly comparable, because you will be paying more per month on the loan than you would on the lease.

Yes, I plan to lease. I'll probably "trade in" for a new electric car three years from now, but I'll exercise the purchase option if I still love the LEAF and its market resale price is fairly high. Even if I've decided to replace it, I would naturally buy if the resale should happen to be higher than my guaranteed purchase price, though I'm not counting on that.

 

[evnow]

If there is ONLY $700 difference then it might be a good option for some, but I highly doubt this is really the case. Also, if this is about saving money and you plan to replace cars every 3 years you'll be loosing a lot of money regardless of the car's residual.

I don't look at it as "saving money". With lease you have certain benefits - but some extra costs. Balancing them is what we need to do.

You buy a car and keep it for as long as you can to get the most out of it.

True. That is what I do with my current car.

But I think the comparison is faulty. We get what we pay. If we lease and change every 3 years, we are paying a lot more - but in return we get to drive newer cars all the time.

This is somewhat similar to wearing clothes till they can no longer be worn - or getting new set of clothes every so often. They can't be compared - it is no longer a financial comparison. It is a lifestyle choice.

 

[smkettner]

For something closer to an apples-to-apples comparison, try calculating how much it will cost you to buy with $2000 down (on a $36K purchase, since you won't have any rebate or tax credit yet) and an 84 month loan, pay on the loan for three years with an extra $7.5K payment when you get your credit, and then sell the car. Even that isn't exactly comparable, because you will be paying more per month on the loan than you would on the lease.

Better comparison (to me) would be to calculate the cost to lease three years, then the cost to lease for another three years, then the cost to lease for another three years.
Then compare that lease amount to paying cash and selling in nine years. Sure some of the lease money pays for having a newer car each time but in nine years your wallet will be a bit lighter for leasing.

 

[evnow]

Better comparison (to me) would be to calculate the cost to lease three years, then the cost to lease for another three years, then the cost to lease for another three years.
Then compare that lease amount to paying cash and selling in nine years. Sure some of the lease money pays for having a newer car each time but in nine years your wallet will be a bit lighter for leasing.

Ofcourse that is a totally false comparison. Just see my comment above.

This is somewhat similar to wearing clothes till they can no longer be worn - or getting new set of clothes every so often. They can't be compared - it is no longer a financial comparison. It is a lifestyle choice.

 

[EVDRIVER]

After three years of use on the Leaf with low miles I would compare all the Lease costs and payments VS the purchase price and resale of the car at that time. Not sure the car will depreciate that much and if one wants out early they can sell if they buy.

 

[smkettner]

Just as invalid as comparing a three year lease to owning a new car and selling in three years.

We are comparing FINANCIAL cost of ownership to drive. My comparison shows the merit to owning long term.
If your lifestyle says you will trade every three years then leasing may well be better financially vs buying and trading in every three years.

I plan to drive another 30+ years so I need two or three new vehicles. Leasing a new car with a new lease every three years over that same time will most certainly be a larger financial expense to enjoy the lifestyle of always a near new car.