GRA said:
jwatte said:
I was not aware of the calculation changes; that does explain some of the changes. Thanks for the links!
But, really -- I recently heard a Chevy Tahoe Hybrid billed as a "gas sipper...." At 20/23 mpg.
I don't need 250 hp. I think 125 hp would be fine.
I don't particularly need 5000 lbs of vehicle. I think a safe 6-person vehicle can be built at 4000 lbs, or even 3500 lbs.
In Europe, there are lower-end engine choices. You can buy a BMW 7-series with a two-liter four-cylinder engine (well, at least you used to be able to -- haven't kept up lately.) Audi, Mercedes, and the others will give you 0.6 l / 100 km, which translates to 40 mpg highway.
There are minivan-like "people mover" type vehicles with less heavy-duty SUV macho on the market in Japan, Europe and south-east Asia. Maybe they would not be the biggest sellers in the US, but I would like to at least have the option of buying them here...
That should be 6L/100km. And the European mileage standards are different from those in the U.S. (less conservative from the few comparisons I've made), so it's probably not appropriate to read them straight across.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ratings2008.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; also discussed the MY 2008+ Monroney sticker FE test changes. (I followed this since all vehicle MPG ratings dropped at MY08 and my mom bought a leftover 07 NAH when 08s were on the lot. Car was unchanged, values went down.)
I just also found http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/420f06069.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; re: the MY08 changes. When this was written in December 06, it says:
The test methods for calculating these estimates were last revised in 1984, when the fuel economy derived from the two tests were adjusted downward – 10 percent for city and 22 percent for highway -- to more accurately reflect driving styles and conditions.
That's the other change that I recall. So, sometime on/after 84 but before MY08, you could take the raw EPA dyno (unadj) numbers (at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
and multiple the city unadj figure by 0.9 and highway unadj by 0.78 to get the (now old) Monroney sticker numbers.
I don't closely follow 6+ passenger vehicles but the Mazda 5 (http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=modelsSpecs2&vehicleCode=MZ5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
is 157 hp, weighs 3457 lbs and supposedly seats 6. FE falls well short of what you'd like though.
Yeah, LOL re: the Tahoe Hybrid. It's no surprise that GM's monstrosity class 2-mode hybrids haven't sold well (http://www.hybridcars.com/news/may-2012-dashboard-46746.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
.
Yep, re: inflated European FE standards. Per http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-truth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates-the-truth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates-page-3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (page 3 of the article I cited):
One last fuel-economy tidbit: Don’t even think of comparing EPA figures with standÂardized fuel-economy tests from other countries because the test cycles are very different. For example, the European highway rating, called “extra urban,” is higher than the EPA’s by about 30 percent, so a rating on that cycle of, say, 60 mpg, would be closer to 40 in this country. The mainstream press, not realizing the difference, often complains that automakers refuse to bring efficient models here when, in fact, they may not be all that efficient when measured by U.S. standards.
For example, per http://carfueldata.direct.gov.uk/search-new-or-used-cars.aspx?vid=23493" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the '12 Prius gets these figures:
Imperial Urban (cold) 70.6
Imperial Extra Urban 74.3
Imperial Combined 70.6
Metric Urban (cold) 4.0
Metric Extra Urban 3.8
Metric Combined 4.0
The Imperial measures are in larger Imperial gallons. Those figures translated into miles per US gallons are:
58.79 mpg
61.87 mpg
58.79 mpg
58.80 mpg
61.9 mpg
58.80 mpg
US EPA estimates for the same car (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=31767" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
are 51 city/48 highway, 50 combined.
It really is too bad Toyota's not bringing the 7 seat version of the Prius v to the US (http://priuschat.com/threads/hands-on-prius-plus-or-prius-v-toyota%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%84%A2s-first-hybrid-mpv-and-cnbc-video.91025/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
. That version has the NiMH battery in the back replaced w/a smaller li-ion one that's in the front center armrest/console area. That makes room for the extra row of seats. It's also too bad that Toyota doesn't bring their JDM Estima hybrid minivan to the US or that nobody else jumps on this opportunity.