EVSE Basics

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GlennD

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EVSE Basics

I see new owners of Leaf S base cars over spending on level two EVSE's.

There are two parts to the J1772 Specification. First the EVSE tells the car how much current it can supply using the pilot duty cycle. Second the EV charger takes what it needs ignoring the rest.

When I was working I charged with a 16A L2 EVSE. It charged my 2012 Leaf to its 16A max. When I switched to a 2013 Leaf SL it still charged my car at 16A. The car could charge at 27.5A but is obeyed the current limitation.

At home I charge from a 32A OpenEVSE. My Leaf takes its 27.5A and ignores the rest. In fact I could set my EVSE to the J1772 max of 80A and I would get away with it since my Leaf will only take the 27.5A it needs. It will not cause a fire since the real current is unchanged.

As long as the EVSE tells the EV that there is enough current all is fine. I could have a 15KW 50A JuiceBox and my car would still only charge at 27.5A.

If I had a base 16A S connected to a 15KW JuiceBox it would charge no faster than Ingineers 20A conversion. Both supply more current than the EV charger requires.

No current EV draws 50A. A dual charger Tesla S will exceed the normal J1772 current but it uses its own power plug. Tesla based cars like the Mercedes B can draw 40A. All other cars that I am aware of draw 30A or less. A Soul EV or a Honda Fit EV will charge at 30A. A leaf charges at 16A or 27.5A. Any excess current is ignored. A 16A leaf will not charge any faster on a 15KW EVSE.

Clipper Creek makes quality EVSE's at a variety of current levels. Unless I had a Tesla based EV and wanted to charge at 40A then buying a 40A EVSE is a waste of money. The EV will charge just fine at 30A a little slower but you will have spent hundreds less. Most of the time you charge over night and as long as there is enough energy to charge the car fully in the morning you are golden.

If I spent a thousand plus dollars on a 40A Clipper then I might experience the placebo effect and I might be convinced it would charge my old 2012 SL faster. All a higher current EVSE gets you is a very heavy awkward J1772 cable.

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Why buy an EVSE with a higher rating than your onboard charger? Future-proofing.

It only took Nissan 2 model years before they went from 16A to 27.5A. It's not unreasonable to believe the 30A barrier will broke in just a few more years for most EVs. Unless you are planning on keeping your EV until the wheels fall off, it might be best to consider a more powerful EVSE in case your next EV onboard charger is more capable.

Cost comparison:

ClipperCreek LCS-20 (15A) - $395
ClipperCreek LCS-25 (20A) - $495
ClipperCreek HCS-40 (32A) - $590
ClipperCreek HCS-60 (48A) - $899

I would go with the HCS-40. Why? Because my EVSE will outlast the time I keep my LEAF (it's a lease). I doubt my next car will have a 48A charging capability, but it probably will have more than 15A.

If I purchased my LEAF and planned on keeping it for 10+ years, then yes, I would stick with either the LCS-20 or LCS-25, in this example.
 
Thanks for the explanation. That made me think about overbuying. Honestly, even if I had a Tesla P85D, I don't think I'd need to upgrade from the 32A OpenEVSE build I got from you. Considering the actual driving I do when making a return trip home in the same day has never been more than 150 miles in the same day, getting ~20 mi/hr on a charge would be more than adequate. Even on the odd heavy day, I'd be back up to a full charge after a couple of days. And that's not even considering Superchargers.
 
I think that a lot of the emphasis on "Future Proofing," while well-meaning, comes from those who can either easily afford to do it, or are willing to sacrifice a bit for it, because they are really, really into EVs. For many of us, though, cost is a real consideration, and we are never likely to own or even lease an EV with a giant battery pack. I've been into EVs for going on 15 years, but my funds are very limited (I will probably lease a smaller EV next, not a larger one) and I can see that we need to distinguish between those who can easily Buy Bigger than needed and who have some reason to do so, and those who are never going to need more than a 20-25 amp EVSE.
 
A bigger consideration than the cost of the EVSE is the cost of installing it. Specifically, does your current electrical infrastructure have the room to accommodate a more powerful EVSE?

Sure, an HCS-40 may only be $200 or so more than an LCS-20, but for some homeowners, the LCS-20 is all they can accommodate without an expensive upgrade to the rest of their electrical system. Now, if the homeowner needs to do an upgrade anyway to accommodate even L1 charging, then he/she should accommodate a higher capacity circuit, since it won't cost that much more to do up front vs. having to do it again in the future.
 
GlennD said:
No current EV draws 50A. A dual charger Tesla S will exceed the normal J1772 current but it uses its own power plug.

Your post is mostly correct, but one point I'd like to make is that my Tesla Model S with dual on-board chargers can indeed charge up to 80 amps with a J1772 connector. Clipper Creek makes the CS-100, for example, and it will deliver 80 amps output on a 100 amp circuit...

Otherwise, I agree with the other posters that a 40 amp circuit delivering either 30 or 32 amps through the EVSE is a good solution for cars today and into the future...
 
I bought a 16A EVSE when I got the 2012 LEAF. This was dictated by my home's electrical situation. Had I the option I would probably have bought a 30A unit for "future-proofing". But now that the 2012 has come and gone I'm still using 16A with my 2015 and it's not a problem. For lots of folks 16A is plenty and I've long felt that as battery capacity gets bigger the need for high-power charging actually diminishes.

There are some advantages to 16A charging. All else being equal I think there's a greater safety margin and it also places less demand on shared infrastructure, such as your local transformer. So that when all of your neighbors are driving EV's, maybe it won't melt when everyone starts charging :lol: . There's a bit of future-need that's often overlooked in the march towards higher amperages. In fact I dare say to expect some upper limits to be codified sooner or later when it comes to residential EVSE.
 
Randy said:
GlennD said:
No current EV draws 50A. A dual charger Tesla S will exceed the normal J1772 current but it uses its own power plug.

Your post is mostly correct, but one point I'd like to make is that my Tesla Model S with dual on-board chargers can indeed charge up to 80 amps with a J1772 connector. Clipper Creek makes the CS-100, for example, and it will deliver 80 amps output on a 100 amp circuit...

Otherwise, I agree with the other posters that a 40 amp circuit delivering either 30 or 32 amps through the EVSE is a good solution for cars today and into the future...

You are the exception that allows the J1772 spec to go to 80A. In reality most manufactures have had to derate their J1772 cables to 50A because of over heating. There is still a few of the ITT 75A cables out there but Dostar had to cap their cables at 50A. The Blink cables have trouble at 30A!.

As an aside, both Tony Williams and Phil Childs have stated a #10 J1772 cable can exceed its spec and operate at 40A. Well, my EVSE Load Tester can load up to 10KW at 240V. Slightly more at my 247V. To my utter surprise the Yazaki 30A cable ran at 40A for over 5 minutes. I can not condone exceeding the specifications by so much but it ran fine with no over heating. My circuit has a 40A breaker so continuous testing at 40A is not possible. The rated continuous load is 32A.
 
kubel said:
Why buy an EVSE with a higher rating than your onboard charger? Future-proofing.

It only took Nissan 2 model years before they went from 16A to 27.5A. It's not unreasonable to believe the 30A barrier will broke in just a few more years for most EVs. Unless you are planning on keeping your EV until the wheels fall off, it might be best to consider a more powerful EVSE in case your next EV onboard charger is more capable.

Cost comparison:

ClipperCreek LCS-20 (15A) - $395
ClipperCreek LCS-25 (20A) - $495
ClipperCreek HCS-40 (32A) - $590
ClipperCreek HCS-60 (48A) - $899

I would go with the HCS-40. Why? Because my EVSE will outlast the time I keep my LEAF (it's a lease). I doubt my next car will have a 48A charging capability, but it probably will have more than 15A.




If I purchased my LEAF and planned on keeping it for 10+ years, then yes, I would stick with either the LCS-20 or LCS-25, in this example.

The EVSE is only the tip of the iceberg. You can easily spend at least as much on the electrician. I really like the circuit requirements as part of the Model number.

In this area almost all clothes dryers are natural gas. If you also have an electric dryer outlet the cheapest way to go is to re-purpose the circuit. I built a 24A EVSE for a man to use on a 30A dryer outlet. He is happy with it even though is allows less than his car max. Hundreds if not thousands are happily charging at 20A with Ingineer's Nisan EVSE mod.
 
GlennD said:
In this area almost all clothes dryers are natural gas. If you also have an electric dryer outlet the cheapest way to go is to re-purpose the circuit. I built a 24A EVSE for a man to use on a 30A dryer outlet...
Also depends on where you live. In most areas of California dryers are often located in the garage. In places with real winters — including high altitude parts of California — washers and dryers are typically located inside the house in a utility room or basement, so that the water lines don't freeze. That very common setup may make it hard to re-purpose the dryer outlet for EVSE use, depending on the location of the utility room.
 
Here in Vegas alot of homes have the washer/dryers in the garage too. I saw the insane commercial prices on L2 chargers which motivated me to find a DIY solution which is how I discovered OpenEVSE. I now enjoy building and selling them too :D
 
VegasBrad said:
I saw the insane commercial prices on L2 chargers which motivated me to find a DIY solution which is how I discovered OpenEVSE. I now enjoy building and selling them too :D

At the time the Leaf was first introduced, yes EVSE prices (like the AeroVironment unit that Nissan was and still is pushing) were high. But today you can get a 15 amp unit for as little as $395 from Clipper Creek. It won't charge your Leaf at max speed but if you charge overnight like most EV owners it's sufficient. For another $100 you can get a 20 amp unit and for another $100 on top of that you can get a 32 amp unit, which is more than most current EV's (that aren't made with Tesla components) can fully utilize. No assembly required, and you get a 3 year warranty.
 
GlennD said:
In this area almost all clothes dryers are natural gas. If you also have an electric dryer outlet the cheapest way to go is to re-purpose the circuit. I built a 24A EVSE for a man to use on a 30A dryer outlet. He is happy with it even though is allows less than his car max. Hundreds if not thousands are happily charging at 20A with Ingineer's Nisan EVSE mod.


You might be talking about me, Glenn ;)
The L2 charger you made for me has the old-school dryer plug on it, at my request, enabling me to use the pre-existing outlet in my garage.
I had an electrician neighbor take a look at my panel after you & I spoke, confirming that I've got it on a 40A circuit.

I'm very, very happy with the unit you made for me. It's a quality piece of kit.
Based on our conversation, I believe it can provide more output than my Volt is willing to take, so my Volt happily charges as quickly as possible.

 
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