EVSE 200V 15A - Nissan Leaf 2017

[Shameem]

If you already have the step-down transformer, I see no reason not to use it but being from the USA, I have no experience using 240 volts on a 200 volt rated vehicle. The step-down transformer will cause a bit of loss of power in order to perform the step-down function. Since many EVSEs work at either 120 volts or 240 volts, it would make sense that it would work at 200 volts. You should be able to verify with the specs of the EVSE you intend to buy.

Thank you @Steve52!

That makes sense...

 

[Steve52]

Also, I saw from the Japanese website owner's manual that the normal charging is 3 or 6 kW for a ZE1. The thing is that I don't know if I can charge at 6kW because in the manual it's stated that the 6kW depends on the option/version of the car. So, I don't want to take the risk. What do you think?

With simple EVSEs like the one supplied with my 2018 40 kWh Leaf, the EVSE has no control of the charging power, i.e., 3 kW, 6 kW, etc., The Leaf's onboard charger determines the charge power rating. If you've seen 15 amps at 200 volts in the past then you have a ~ 3.0 kWh onboard charger and have no choice over the charge rate.

Of note, when you measured 14-15 amps previously, was this measured on the transformer's primary side, (240 volts) or on the secondary side, (200 volts)? The reason I'm asking is that the circuit breaker providing power to the transformer must be rated for 125 % of the primary's amperage to provide a safety factor for the breaker.

 

[Shameem]

With simple EVSEs like the one supplied with my 2018 40 kWh Leaf, the EVSE has no control of the charging power, i.e., 3 kW, 6 kW, etc., The Leaf's onboard charger determines the charge power rating. If you've seen 15 amps at 200 volts in the past then you have a ~ 3.0 kWh onboard charger and have no choice of the charge rate.

Of note, when you measured 14-15 amps previously, was this measured on the transformer's primary side, (240 volts) or on the secondary side, (200 volts)? The reason I'm asking is that the circuit breaker providing power to the transformer must be rated for 125 % of the primary's amperage to provide a safety factor for the breaker.

The 14-15 amps were measured on the output side-secondary (200 V).
So, I need to check for the amps on the primary side and see if the breaker is well designed?

 

[Steve52]

Yes.
The current on the primary side will be less since you are stepping down, e.g., 3,000 watts / 240 volts = 12.5 amps; 12.5 amps x 1.25 = 15.6 amps or rounding up the breaker and wiring should be rated at 16 amps or higher depending on your actual 240 volt current draw.

 

[Shameem]

Yes.
The current on the primary side will be less since you are stepping down, e.g., 3,000 watts / 240 volts = 12.5 amps; 12.5 amps x 1.25 = 15.6 amps or rounding up the breaker and wiring should be rated at 16 amps or higher depending on your actual 240 volt current draw.

Thanks!

 

[Steve52]

Just to be clear, adjustable EVSE's can control the current into the onboard charger but only to the upper limit of your vehicle's charge capacity. If your manual specifies 200 volts and 15 amps (3000 watts) maximum, then the replacement EVSE you purchase should match that specification as closely as possible. I'm guessing that any Level 2 EVSE, (240 volt) available in your country will work whether it's set to ~ 15 amps or adjustable to 15 amps or below.

 

[Steve52]

The EV Fact Sheet I sent previously mentions a Mode 2 Charging standard for private import Leafs;
"The ZE1 Leaf also comes with a Mode 2 portable EVSE
for plugging into a 15A power point. Charging with this
EVSE will take approx. 24hrs to reach full-charge from
empty?"
If you have such a portable EVSE available, it would plug into a "standard" 15 amp, 240 volt plug and draw up to 12 amps, (2.4 kW).

 

[coulomb]

However, it's not the EVSE which has a 200 V limitation. See "EVSE Details-Japanese" file encircled in red (In Japanese though...which when translated, states that "We recommend using it with AC 200V).

That text is right underneath a drawing of the EVSE, not the car. So "it" here refers to the EVSE. It seems that this EVSE doesn't even work at 100 V, so really they are saying don't use 100 V, it's slow and you'll need a different EVSE as well. So they're not talking about the car's On Board Charger here.

Can you please confirm if I can use a 240 V EVSE?

As @cornbinder89 says, yes you can use a 240 V EVSE.

You can use the 240 V EVSE with or without the transformer; I suggest using it without the transformer. As a bonus, you'll get around 10% higher charging speed, and you won't be wasting power in the transformer.

Because I presume that since my transformer will deliver 200 V, then the same voltage will go through the EVSE. Correct?

Yes. The EVSE is a glorified switch. When everything is ready for charging, the EVSE turns on its relay and connects AC-in to AC-out. Whatever voltage you put into it, that's what it will send to the car. People often incorrectly call an EVSE a "charger" because it's the equipment you need to charge the car, but it does no power conversion at all (apart from a small power supply to power the internal electronics, and that's the part that is stuck at 200 V max in your JDM EVSE).

 

[Steve52]

That text is right underneath a drawing of the EVSE, not the car. So "it" here refers to the EVSE. It seems that this EVSE doesn't even work at 100 V, so really they are saying don't use 100 V, it's slow and you'll need a different EVSE as well. So they're not talking about the car's On Board Charger here.


As @cornbinder89 says, yes you can use a 240 V EVSE. As a bonus, you'll get around 10% higher charger speed, and you won't be wasting power in the transformer.


Yes. The EVSE is a glorified switch. When everything is ready for charging, the EVSE turns on its relay and connects AC-in to AC-out. Whatever voltage you put into it, that's what it will send to the car. People often incorrectly call an EVSE a "charger" because it's the equipment you need to charge the car, but it does no power conversion at all (apart from a small power supply to power the internal electronics, and that's the part that is stuck at 200 V max in your JDM EVSE).

Just curious, it seems that adjustable EVSEs have some sort of communication with the onboard charger to limit charge current to whatever the user chooses. If a vehicle has a charger capable of for example, 30 amps at 240 volts, (7.2 kW) and a user sets the current to 40 amps, (9.6 kW), how will the Leaf's onboard charger react?

 

[SageBrush]

Just curious, it seems that adjustable EVSEs have some sort of communication with the onboard charger to limit charge current to whatever the user chooses. If a vehicle has a charger capable of for example, 30 amps at 240 volts, (7.2 kW) and a user sets the current to 40 amps, (9.6 kW), how will the Leaf's onboard charger react?

During the handshake between the EVSE and the car, the EVSE informs the car of the max Amps it can pass. The car then tells the EVSE how many to pass (up to the maximum the EVSE can pass.)

 

[cornbinder89]

If the EVSE is set higher than the charger capacity the charge will be at the max of the charger, if set below the max of the onboard charger, the on board charger will be limited to the set point.

 

[goldbrick]

My understanding is that the current is controlled by the OBC. The EVSE simply communicates its limit to the car and the car's computers setup the OBC to pull the minimum of the EVSE limit or the OBC limit.

 

[Steve52]

During the handshake between the EVSE and the car, the EVSE informs the car of the max Amps it can pass. The car then tells the EVSE how many to pass (up to the maximum the EVSE can pass.)

I don't believe the EVSE can limit the current since it is just a relay to connect the input to the output of the EVSE. Therefore, the only way for the EVSE to limit the current is for the EVSE to tell the onboard charger to limit the current that the charger uses.

 

[Steve52]

My understanding is that the current is controlled by the OBC. The EVSE simply communicates its limit to the car and the car's computers setup the OBC to pull the minimum of the EVSE limit or the OBC limit.

So, according to this logic, Shameen could use any Level 2 EVSE on his Leaf and the Leaf will draw what it needs up to its maximum power usage. The EVSE's current rating is not relevant as long it supports 15 amps or greater. This would make his job to buy a replacement EVSE much easier.

 

[cornbinder89]

there is communication between the EVSE and the onboard charger, The EVSE tells the onboard charger how much current the EVSE can provide from the supply it is connected to.
In this way the cars onboard charger can be hooked to a supply that that is less than the max the charger can handle, so it cn be hooked to a supply of 24 amps @240 volts, even though the charger can accept up to 27 amps @240 volts.
Same onboard charger can be connected to a 10 amp supply on one day and a 27 amp supply somewhere else.
That is the beauty of the EVSE system. It tells tha onboard charger what it can safely draw.
You can use a fixed spec'd EVSE or you can buy on the aftermarket, adjustable EVSE's. The Nissan supplied are fixed, either single or dual voltage/rate units, but many aftermarket units are adjustable.

 

[Steve52]

there is communication between the EVSE and the onboard charger, The EVSE tells the onboard charger how much current the EVSE can provide from the supply it is connected to.
In this way the cars onboard charger can be hooked to a supply that that is less than the max the charger can handle, so it cn be hooked to a supply of 24 amps @240 volts, even though the charger can accept up to 27 amps @240 volts.
Same onboard charger can be connected to a 10 amp supply on one day and a 27 amp supply somewhere else.
That is the beauty of the EVSE system. It tells tha onboard charger what it can safely draw.
You can use a fixed spec'd EVSE or you can buy on the aftermarket, adjustable EVSE's. The Nissan supplied are fixed, either single or dual voltage/rate units, but many aftermarket units are adjustable.

Yes to your comments except for one caveat; EVSEs have no way of determining the capacity of the supply circuit. It's up to the user of both fixed and adjustable EVSEs to provide the proper circuit capacity to their combination of EVSE and OBC.

 

[cornbinder89]

I never meant to imply otherwise.

 

[goldbrick]

EVSEs have no way of determining the capacity of the supply circuit. It's up to the user of both fixed and adjustable EVSEs to provide the proper circuit capacity to their combination of EVSE and OBC.

Indeed. I think this is one of the reasons and main functions of the communications between the EVSE and the car. The user should know what type of circuit the EVSE is plugged into and must pick an appropriate one for the EVSE being used (or the current limit set for an EVSE that can use various current limits).

Of course, the EVSE itself can be the limiting factor (eg small wire size) since in effect, the EVSE is just an extension of the entire circuit used to charge the car, which is always limited by the lowest current capacity component in the circuit.

 

[coulomb]

The car then tells the EVSE how many to pass (up to the maximum the EVSE can pass.)

You may be thinking of DC charging, i.e. CHAdeMO or CCS-2. With AC charging, communications from the car to the EVSE are extremely limited; basically restricted to a few states: not connected, connected, ready to charge, error, and the now very rarely used "ventilation required" (as this car has a flooded lead acid battery or similar). Basics of SAE J1772.

 

[MozzoAU]

I can confirm that @cornbinder89 is correct. We've thousands of JDM leads here in Australia. The OBC can handle a huge voltage range. A stepdown transformer will just waste energy. At 15A it's got to be getting hot. If the EVSE is going to have any problems with the 240v it will be a tiny power supply inside it that runs the electronics in it to handshake with the car and activate the relay to supply AC to the car.
Here in Australia the JDM EVSE is not safety approved so everyone buys third party EVSE units.