EVS comes back to LA for 2012

[JeremyW]

Had a great time on Sunday with everyone, and I was lucky enough to be able to go back today so I got a bit more face time with some of the reps. As was stated earlier by hill, the reps understood that they would be continuing to support CHAdeMO for some time, which was refreshing to hear. The new plug isn't all that bad, and talking to a rep today at REMA I learned that these connectors will cost "in the hundreds" instead of the $2,500+ that everybody wants for the CHAdeMO ones. Also, I went by Yazaki's booth and man you want to talk about franken-plug, look at the size of this sucker:

Or the Euro version (Mennekes-DC):

Or the Chinese Standard:

I also got a picture of an SAE and CHAdeMO together:

I discussed the communications side of SAE with an Eaton rep today as well. I specifically asked if power line communications would have problems in a presumably noisy environment. He mentioned that they haven't have much issue with that. However the protocol is also used by power companies for telemetry purposes, and they were having a bit of trouble distinguishing between the car and power co at times. He said that even that wasn't a very big issue though. I also brought up the issue of retrofitting payment options to the San Bernardino unit, and they said a new front door with payment options should be available in "about three months."

Talked to the folks at Delta about Angus' unit needing a power module swap (due to incorrect voltage range meant for a European market), they seemed eager to do so, and the consensus seemed to be Angus had really wanted a unit ASAP so they sold him one... Devil's in the details.

Also had a good time at the "in wheel" motor company, Protean Electric. They have eight years of development under their belt with two more to go. DC brushless with the inverter integrated into the package. The torque figures were crazy: 370 lb-ft! Yeah yeah, unsprung weight; I don't care, if they can make them cheap enough, we'll see a lot more electric/hybrid conversions! The "raised truck" crowd is the prefect market for such a thing. :twisted:

Speaking of huge motors, my favorite was this sucker, meant for electric buses:

As far as batteries, there were a lot of lithium iron phosphate manufactures, and they were giving encouraging lifetimes of around 2,500-5,000 cycles to 80% DOD. It seemed the only difference between some of them was the color of the plastic casing the cells were housed in. :lol: Overall it felt like there won't be much breakthrough for a while (5-10 years), except a significant lowering of cost. After discussing Lithium-Air with a gentleman who was in the industry, I learned it has some fundamental problems that haven't been worked out yet, such as preventing damage to the electrolyte during charging. I also got to talk to a "lead oxide" battery maker and they quoted 500 cycles to 80% DOD, which I feel is a non-starter.

I test drove the Coda, FFE, Plug in Prius, Toyota Highlander h2, Chevy Volt, and the Honda Clarity. Coda was ok, I guess I'm use to cheap cars so the cheap dash wasn't too bad in my mind, and the car I drove had some very nice leather. However, the peddle spacing seemed too close, and the brakes were touchy. I was very impressed with Ford, their offering is comparable to the Leaf, but again touchy brakes. I thought it was just me and then I hopped in the Volt and it felt like my regular car so I guess not. The volt has a much shorter windshield then I'd prefer and the interior was just too cramped for me, although I feel its probably on par with most higher end sports cars. The plug in prius surprised me greatly, it had a good layout and had much more interior space then you'd think. I test drove the one with a heads up display which showed the speed and the power graph on the windshield which was very cool.

AV also had a rapid charger open to "the public" and I saw a few leafs use it during the time that I was there. There's a few less "virgin" leafs in the LA area now.

Jeremy

 

[edatoakrun]

Any more news on the specs of the:

....small range extender engine that will be optional on the i3...

What displacement, fuel, and kW output?

Will it be driver-controlled, so that you can recharge while you drive, before exhausting the battery, when you have a longer trip planned?

 

[Boomer23]

Any more news on the specs of the:

....small range extender engine that will be optional on the i3...

What displacement, fuel, and kW output?

Will it be driver-controlled, so that you can recharge while you drive, before exhausting the battery, when you have a longer trip planned?

Sorry, those details haven't been released as far as I can tell. We do know that BMW is calling the range extender option "REx". I've read varying reports that say that maybe the engine will be one of BMW's motorcycle two cylinders, and then another report that says that it's a small automotive engine. From what I have read, the concept of REx is to add a small amount of range to the i3, but unlike the Volt, the extra range will be only about equal to the battery range. So the fuel tank will be quite small, maybe only 2 or 3 gallons, to add maybe 100 miles of range. Also, the gas engine will not drive the wheels at any time, but just produce electrical energy.

The best informed American, outside of BMW personnel, is Tom Moloughney. Here's a link to his i3 blog so that you can stay up to date with what he's hearing: http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2011/09/to-rex-or-not-to-rex-that-is-question.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And here's a link to BMW's official i3 site: http://www.bmw-i.com/en_ww/bmw-i3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm sure that the i3 thread on MNL will get really active with details over the next six to twelve months, with the i3 release expected in 2013.

 

[Boomer23]

BMW was present with an ActiveE on display, featured along with a VW electric UP Blue Motion at the SAE combination QC exhibit. The ActiveE had been retrofitted with an SAE QC combo port and we were told that the car was actively charging on DC using the proposed SAE standard plug from an ABB quick charger. The BMW had a special piece of hardware sitting in the trunk that was taking the DC feed from the QC unit and sending it to the battery pack.

Since this thread was picked up on the BMW ActiveE Facebook page because of the DC charging demonstrated on the ActiveE at the show, I thought I'd add pictures of the device that was taking the DC current and then sending it to the pack. Perhaps some of the engineers here will find it interesting as well. Remember, this was only being used to demonstrate DC charging on the ActiveE and this is not part of the current test fleet of ActiveEs. The BMW tech also said that the i3 would have something like this, but that it would be built compactly into the structure of the car and not taking up trunk space like this.

 

[tbleakne]

We do know that BMW is calling the range extender option "REx". I've read varying reports that say that maybe the engine will be one of BMW's motorcycle two cylinders, and then another report that says that it's a small automotive engine. From what I have read, the concept of REx is to add a small amount of range to the i3, but unlike the Volt, the extra range will be only about equal to the battery range. So the fuel tank will be quite small, maybe only 2 or 3 gallons, to add maybe 100 miles of range. Also, the gas engine will not drive the wheels at any time, but just produce electrical energy.

Interesting. This sounds like the kind of very modest range extension I could live with as well. Presumably I could drive around with the tank dead-empty so there would be no fumes until I needed to go out of town.

Or, how about a range-extender than runs on methyl alcohol ? low carbon emission, no high-pressure tank.

 

[Boomer23]

Any more news on the specs of the:

....small range extender engine that will be optional on the i3...

What displacement, fuel, and kW output?

Will it be driver-controlled, so that you can recharge while you drive, before exhausting the battery, when you have a longer trip planned?

Sorry, those details haven't been released as far as I can tell. We do know that BMW is calling the range extender option "REx". I've read varying reports that say that maybe the engine will be one of BMW's motorcycle two cylinders, and then another report that says that it's a small automotive engine. From what I have read, the concept of REx is to add a small amount of range to the i3, but unlike the Volt, the extra range will be only about equal to the battery range. So the fuel tank will be quite small, maybe only 2 or 3 gallons, to add maybe 100 miles of range. Also, the gas engine will not drive the wheels at any time, but just produce electrical energy.

The best informed American, outside of BMW personnel, is Tom Moloughney. Here's a link to his i3 blog so that you can stay up to date with what he's hearing: http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2011/09/to-rex-or-not-to-rex-that-is-question.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And here's a link to BMW's official i3 site: http://www.bmw-i.com/en_ww/bmw-i3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm sure that the i3 thread on MNL will get really active with details over the next six to twelve months, with the i3 release expected in 2013.

Here's more from Tom's blog today: http://activeemobility.blogspot.com/2012/05/tesla-cadillac-and-infinity-to-compete.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[KeiJidosha]

We do know that BMW is calling the range extender option "REx". I've read varying reports that say that maybe the engine will be one of BMW's motorcycle two cylinders, and then another report that says that it's a small automotive engine. From what I have read, the concept of REx is to add a small amount of range to the i3, but unlike the Volt, the extra range will be only about equal to the battery range. So the fuel tank will be quite small, maybe only 2 or 3 gallons, to add maybe 100 miles of range. Also, the gas engine will not drive the wheels at any time, but just produce electrical energy.

Interesting. This sounds like the kind of very modest range extension I could live with as well. Presumably I could drive around with the tank dead-empty so there would be no fumes until I needed to go out of town.

Or, how about a range-extender than runs on methyl alcohol ? low carbon emission, no high-pressure tank.

Audi is also looking at the REx format. An interesting rumor from the Jens Meiners at Car and Driver is the A1 e-tron 21 hp wankel may be too small in the search for "just right".

“We hear from Ingolstadt that Audi will expand its fleet of A1 e-tron prototypes. The A1 e-tron is a battery-electric vehicle with a one-disc rotary-type range extender engine supplied by AVL. It is currently in the testing stage and one of Audi’s findings is that the 21 hp provided by the rotary engine is insufficient once the batteries are low. To spare the batteries unnecessary stress and to maintain a minimum of agility, Audi will install a more powerful, 34-hp range extender in the next batch of prototypes. It is still not clear whether a possible series production model would be fitted with the smooth rotary range extender. Economies of scale within the VW Group could dictate a conventional range extender engine.”

I like the small, serial design. But I think REx favors a crossover SUV, not a sub-compact.

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