Etiquette when using public charging stations.

[RegGuheert]

But then, and this is a small but important point, you have to return the handle to it's holster before it will authorize charging on a new card. Or at least that's how I remember it.

Great! Then you can continue charging on their card! :twisted: Talk about a great way to encourage people to follow EViquette!

 

[shrink]

Well, I feel the need to respond here because opossum is calling me out. Again.

I will take responsibility for taking up opossum's precious QC port. Yes, I left my car there. No I didn't think it was an issue. These honestly are rarely used. There was an adjacent spot next to my car that I thought could have charged with the 2nd port. Only upon returning did I realize it was out of service. I did not realize the port from which I was charging could not reach the adjacent spot. That's poor installation planning.

What opposum failed to mention is that while he was all upset about the QC, he and his wife posted not one, but two flaming posts on PlugShare with my license plate number to complain. That's what ticked me off. Normally, I'd be apologetic and I did apologize when I returned to the car and saw them. The wife actually seemed nice. Opposum did not say a word to me. I do not know this couple at all, nor have i had any interaction with him on these boards, and I get a PM from opposum tonight linking me to this thread again trying to lecture me on charging etiquette. He tracked me down on this site and sends me a snotty PM. Unbelievable.

For the record, I am truly sorry for the inconvenience and I think we EV drivers should have some comaraderie, but to call me out twice on PlugShare posts and then tracking me down here? Really?

I have QC'd only 3 times and I had it in my head 30 minutes to 80%. I had no clue it would only take 13 minutes. Thinking I had 30 minutes, I walked across the street for lunch. It did take a little longer than we thought since we did run into a friend unexpectedly. I thought we were gone for 45 minutes and I still don't think that's unreasonable for what I thought was a 30 minute charge. Opposum is claiming over an hour. He may be right, but again with adjacent spot access and what should be a working 2nd port, I still don't think it was egregious. If I had known it would take 13 minutes, I would not have left. There were still two L2 EVSE's right next to the QC, too.

I don't think it's necessary to post my license plate and then track me down here to try lecture me further. They really made it personal by calling me out and then tracking me down here. That I do not appreciate.

You did have access to two L2's and the QC is still not even officially listed as online by Blink.

This was a misunderstanding and I wish you had the patience to accept my apology when I saw the two of you. Posting my plate in a public forum because you were inconvenienced for 30 minutes and then tracking me down here is just juvenile.

Curious how you guys think the etiquette should apply to the fast charge stations, as my wife and I had this whole etiquette thing taken to a whole new level last weekend!...

To make a long story short, the only available fast charge port was tied up by a car that charged for a whopping 13 minutes. But the owners walked away for a sit-down meal and were gone for an hour or more, or roughly 4 to 5 times the amount of time it took to finish charging.

The argument from said owners was that we were suffering from entitlement, should have just been happy with using a Level 2 charger, and should have planned our trip better.

Problem is... what if both ports were still working, but we had TWO EV owners who felt they could tie up the expensive fast charger by plugging in for 13 minute charges and running away for a nice long meal or movie? Seems the same as the gas station analogy others have mentioned... except it's the only gas station around... and there are only two gas pumps... and the people filling up have left their cars with full tanks parked in front of the pumps for over half an hour. It seems as if the entitlement accusation is misplaced!

Thoughts?...

 

[edatoakrun]

DC charge spaces are not parking spaces.

As long as DC charging is only available from a single charger per site, and DC sites are in short supply, I would suggest the proper etiquette is to never leave your car parked after charging, always leave a note with your charge completion time, at your unattended charging car, and never leave your BEV at a DC, unattended, for more than 30 minutes.

Of course, once the 85 kWh Tesla S's begin plugging into the Chademo network, charging for hours (?) at a time, the problem of blocked access to (single) DC chargers will be much more severe, and I expect regulating DC charge use by "etiquette" rather than rational payment plans, for charge space time as well as kWh use, will be entirely unworkable...

PS- Just read the discussion at the S topic on the question of whether the S will have Chademo capability.
I can't imagine, myself, that Tesla would try to market a car in the USA that could not use the current DC standard.

Elan's answer: “the model S will be able to charge anywhere, the onboard charging system is very in touch and highly adaptive, it can adapt to any input current and voltage you can feed it. the adapters for the various standards around the world… come with the car.”

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9102&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[grommet]

I can't imagine, myself, that Tesla would try to market a car in the USA that could not use the current DC standard.

Tesla is building it's own proprietary Supercharger network, for use with their 85 and 60 kWh cars only.

 

[Pipcecil]

I honestly think the alleviation of the problem is better tracking via emails, smart phone apps, etc. In addition it would be very neat (if possible) to add a feature to charging stations that with a push of a button, etc. someone could send an email/text (depending how their account is set up) to that person requesting usage of the charger, that way the person can address the problem by moving their car, etc. without having to leave personal information displayed on their vehicle (this method would hide the contact info from the person and allow the company to send the request).

That said, I would not fault anyone for leaving a car up to an hour on a DC charger. One hour max though. But, because of the faster charge times, I usually just watch mine, or keep a keen eye on it and check my car frequently (eVgo's circle light helps a bunch when viewing the car at a distance). On the flip side, requesting people stand by or near their car for up to 30, maybe even 45 minutes is a decent amount of wasted time when you could have a quick lunch for under 30 minutes.

The offender didn't do anything wrong in my book, especially if it was only 45 minutes. Could they have moved their car before that time? Sure, it would have been nice, but I wouldn't fault him for leaving it there only 45 minutes. Secondly, a lunch for only 30 (reasonable) and an unexpected friendly meeting just happens.

So, yes, the offender could have kept a more keen eye on his car and any potential person waiting, but, in my opinion, he was within the time of normal usage of a DC charger wait. If he had left the car there for say 2 hours or so, then, yes, its a different story.

 

[edatoakrun]

I can't imagine, myself, that Tesla would try to market a car in the USA that could not use the current DC standard.

Tesla is building it's own proprietary Supercharger network, for use with their 85 and 65 kWh cars only.

Yes, I have heard that's the plan.

A network so proprietary most Tesla's cant even use it...

I wonder what the rules of etiquette are, when 3 or 4 Tesla S mega-packs, are lined up at Harris Ranch on a weekend afternoon, for a SF to LA midpoint charge?

Maybe that's what is behind the Tesla S battery swap rumors.

 

[opossum]

Of course, once the 85 kWh Tesla S's begin plugging into the Chademo network, charging for hours (?) at a time, the problem of blocked access to (single) DC chargers will be much more severe, and I expect regulating DC charge use by "etiquette" rather than rational payment plans, for charge space time as well as kWh use, will be entirely unworkable...

Yeah, the thought has already occurred to me, even with modest 24-ish kWhr Leafs, that the DCFC stations will probably instigate a lot of "negotiations" among EV owners as to what each person's charge and time "needs" are. I've already had one such encounter. I stopped by a DCFC station on a whim to try and get enough charge to run an errand and get home. Another guy was already charging and wasn't going to be done for 20 minutes. I had somewhere to be in 20 minutes, so I opted to just leave and try to find charging after running my errand. I think many of us have even had these discussions/negotiations on Level 2 stations over the years. The high capacity Tesla packs may really lead to some interesting negotiations.

 

[Alric]

A previous summary of the previous discussions is:

1) Park only for as long as you charge
2) Ok to disconnect if charged
3) 1 hr limit

Teslas should probably stick to the 1 hr limit unless they absolutely need the charge. A Tesla should charge about 60 kW in an hour. That's a 200 mile range.

 

[edatoakrun]

A previous summary of the previous discussions is:

1) Park only for as long as you charge
2) Ok to disconnect if charged
3) 1 hr limit

Teslas should probably stick to the 1 hr limit unless they absolutely need the charge. A Tesla should charge about 60 kW in an hour. That's a 200 mile range.

No, Not even at a ~50 kW Chademo.

And many Chademos will probably be available only at much lower kW, by infrastructure or rate/kWh cost limitations.

What is the etiquette when you find an 85 kWh S is parked overnight, at the one presently available So CAL DC, currently limited to 16kW, to avoid demand charges?

 

[mwalsh]

But then, and this is a small but important point, you have to return the handle to it's holster before it will authorize charging on a new card. Or at least that's how I remember it.

Great! Then you can continue charging on their card! :twisted: Talk about a great way to encourage people to follow EViquette!

No, because as soon as you unplug from the car charging stops.

 

[91040]

A shout out to a very nice lady named Maryanne (sp?) with a white(?) Leaf in downtown LA today.

Short version- She noticed that I wasn't charging due to all the EVSEs being used. She called me to check it was OK to plug in my car with the EVSE she had been using and left my car charging.

I hope that there are many more acts of uncommon courtesy than problems over the limited access to electricity.

 

[JPVLeaf]

Nice story. Another shout out from me as well. I stopped by the Main Place mall in Santa Ana today. When I arrived at the charging station, the single Clipper Creek was being used by a black Leaf. I didn't need to charge to get home, but if available, it'd be cool to get some opportunity charging while there for a couple of hours. I've not done this before, but I decided to try an EV-experiment. I left a note for the other Leafer requesting that they plug in my car if they should leave before I do. I mentioned my charge port cover was open.

Hoping for the best, but not expecting much, I went off to do my shopping. I checked my charge status periodically through my app. Almost two hrs later, no luck. My car was just sitting ... no juice. So much for my experiment. But, as I walked out to my car, the other Leaf was gone. And, oh?! My car was drinking the juice. So, Thank You Mr/Ms Orange County Black Leaf #94xx. Although my car hadn't been charging for more than 5 mins by the time I got there (based on my Gid level and when my last status check), I appreciated them participating in my little EV-experiment. Cheers to #94xx for Sharing the Plug.

 

[Herm]

Just put a parking meter on the DC charging site, and charge by the minute to your credit card.. yes I know it would be inconvenient when you are eating lunch.. I believe EV2go uses weight sensors in their parking spaces.

I think the proper etiquette to hound someone on the forums should be when the offender hogs the charger for over an hour.. at only 45 minutes it is lame.

 

[hill]

A shout out to a very nice lady named Maryanne (sp?) with a white(?) Leaf in downtown LA today.

Short version- She noticed that I wasn't charging due to all the EVSEs being used. She called me to check it was OK to plug in my car with the EVSE she had been using and left my car charging.

I hope that there are many more acts of uncommon courtesy than problems over the limited access to electricity.

I almost fell off my chair reading that. After 15 months in the Leaf, I've only had 1 of maybe 4 dozen charge protocal instances that went well. That brings my "excelent experience" up to a whopping 1 out of twelve. Here's to hoping that policy will continue.

 

[09Bamb00]

I'm the person who had the Leaf charging. I was concerned when I got a message that my charging had finished because the car was unplugged not because it had finished. And, like he said, I had a mile walk to the public parking garage.

Anyway, when I arrived he said that the lights were all on and was very concerned that he had done something rude. I explained that I hadn't received the charging slowing down message just the unplugged message. And said that I didn't know the etiquette either but all was well that ended well, I was charged up for my ride home and he was able to charge immediately upon his arrival to the public parking garage.

I was quite excited to meet another Leaf owner in the flesh and we ended up talking for about a half hour.

Was thinking about this today as the rain came pouring down and my chargepoint network went down. I wasn't planning on walking through the thunderstorm to the garage and hoped that the car was fully charged and I wouldn't be inconveniencing anyone.

Oh and regarding CarWings, I haven't been able to get it to work. Everytime I attempt to sign-in it tells me the information provided by the CarWings site is wrong. So I haven't been able to 'speak' to my Leaf.

 

[sub3marathonman]

I'm the person who had the Leaf charging. I was concerned when I got a message that my charging had finished because the car was unplugged not because it had finished. And, like he said, I had a mile walk to the public parking garage.

Actually, I think this post goes with my thread "Inadvertant Public Charger Etiquette Faux Pas?" in the New Members Section: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9110" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But I too really enjoyed meeting another Leaf owner.

It was interesting because not long after meeting 09Babm00 we were returning to the car in the parking garage, and there was a group of young people by the car and charger. (Of course, more and more people are falling into the group "young people" to me. ) The parking garage was pretty much deserted, and we were walking up to the car. I don't know if they thought we thought they were suspicious, but they were a bit surprised when we went right to the car. (I was a good guy and didn't press the unlock button while we were walking up.) But they were all very interested in the car and the range and how it drove. I told them it was so quiet driving, without the engine running all the time. I told them that we were able to go about 80 miles or so, and then we had to recharge. I told them it took about 4 hours or so with the 240v, and about 12 hours from regular 120v. One of the guys said he had test driven a Volt and a Camaro, and he loved the Volt much more. I didn't get a chance to say, but one of the other real advantages to me of the Leaf is that there is no maintenance of a gasoline engine.

 

[Rat]

Thoughts?...

I find shrink's explanation fairly reasonable, although he should have left a note or business card with a cell phone number on it just in case the unexpected happened. He seems to have failed to notice or anticipate: 1) charging time of 13 minutes; 2) someone coming up soon behind; 3) the other port not working; 4) his cord not reaching the next slot; 5) the length of his meal in a restaurant; and 6) meeting a friend. That's an awful lot of "Gee, I didn't think of that"s. opossum had a right to be ticked off as shrink was somewhat inconsiderate. Obviously there are a lot of things that can go wrong, so leaving a contact # is important etiquette. Even so, leaving a car there for an hour, or 45 minutes, when there appeared to be a second working handle seems reasonable to me and I think opossum's reaction was unjustifiably aggressive. We should all try harder to be civil about these QC's while the kinks get worked out. The speed of charging on these things is quite variable and reliability is an issue. As our experience with them grows, and their numbers increase, I think these kinds of problems will be fewer in number.

 

[bamamarc77]

Classic case of both parties being wrong. Shrink does sound somewhat arrogant in the way he assumes that he is entitled to making someone else wait at a public station for any amount of time while he is engaged in non-urgent matters, and that he can determine the amount of time to inconvienience someone else is absurd...especially with email alerts, etc. Of course opposum turning a one time occurence into some sort of blood feud and posting personal info about shrink on the internet is quite bizarre. Just be prepared to move your car when it's done charging or leave permission for the next person to begin. If you're using a fast charger then it's even more incumbent on you to know the parameters of the session. Love My Leaf.
Happy Father's Day!!!
marc

 

[Alric]

Smartphone apps could be very helpful. Apps like PlugShare should have notifications for when a station becomes (un)available. In the app, each station has a check-in comment that could be used for messages between users interested on the station.

 

[Reddy]

I don't have any of those fancy smart phones, apps, etc. (or nearby QC either). If I ever get the chance to QC, I'll stay with the car. On a L2, I'd probably leave a note saying that I need to charge until NN:YY time.
Reddy