Electric Bill

[healyourself]

Thank you all so much for your advice and suggestions. I feel a lot better having a bit more info at my disposal. I knew it wasn't mostly from the car, but I had no way to prove it.

I am going to find out which public chargers are closest to the house and I may have to do it that way. I've used public chargers in the past but I live closer to work now than I used to, so it shouldn't take me as long to charge. This car does not have a fast charger (and if it was my car I would march it down to the dealership as soon as I could to have one installed), but hopefully it won't take more than two hours to charge using a Level 2 charger.

Cold battery could be a factor as it's been chilly lately here in Houston.

I'm going to ask her if I can take a look at the bill. I'll probably wait a few days so we're both calm.

Gexa Energy turns out to have horrible reviews. The number one complaint is that people were given a cheap rate, then their bill increased dramatically.

 

[KillaWhat]

This car does not have a fast charger (and if it was my car I would march it down to the dealership as soon as I could to have one installed),

Uhhhhhhhh, no I don't think you would.

Good luck with the power thing.

Lot's of discussion on here about similar problems.

 

[knightmb]

Thank you all so much for your advice and suggestions. I feel a lot better having a bit more info at my disposal. I knew it wasn't mostly from the car, but I had no way to prove it.

Did you mentioned how you are charging? Using the Level 1 - 120volt plugin charger that came with the vehicle? Buy a KillAWatt meter from your local hardware/lowes/home depot/etc. store and program the utility rate into it. It can be reset between each charge and just write down how much it cost each time to charge the Leaf, keep it in a spreadsheet and you will have the data you need that she can't argue with.

 

[ksnogas2112]

Just throwing this in from KC. We got L2 plugs at the office a couple months ago. In December my electric bill was $10 more in 2014 than in 2013 and I only plugged in at home once.

It's not the car.

The only conceivable way would be if you were doing full pack charging every single day at the most extreme California electric rates.

The suggestions that it's the energy reseller are probably spot on. I hadn't even heard of stuff like that. Up here we have two choices, get it from the local monopoly (around 9 cents/kwh) or do without.

 

[wsbca]

As far as the car, I don't know how to check the kwh usage. Maybe someone can "point" me in the right direction.

All you really need to do is figure out how many miles you have driven - do you know the odometer reading from when you started renting the car? Conservatively, you are probably getting at least 3 miles per kilowatt hour drawn from the wall. Divide your total miles driven by 3, and multiply that by the cents per kilowatt hour on the electric bill. That's nominally the share of the bill that can be attributed to the car. As noted above, it depends on whether the electric charges are time-dependent, and/or whether the total usage (car, heating, etc.) has driven the bill into a higher priced tier. But still, the bills will show the total kWh consumed. For example, if you've driven the car 500 miles, that probably used no more than 166 kWh. Maybe less, but start there. Around here, that would cost about $25 in "tier 1" (15 cents per kilowatt hour).

 

[mbender]

The suggestions that it's the energy reseller are probably spot on. I hadn't even heard of stuff like that. Up here we have two choices, get it from the local monopoly (around 9 cents/kwh) or do without.

Local regulated monopoly, that is -- a very different beast than your run-of-the-mill monopoly. 9 cents per kWh? We should all be so lucky! (Yes, CA PG&E customer here ;-). And yes, I know other states are even "luckier".) Imagine that, run an average refrigerator all day for 20¢ or less*!!

Incidentally, while poking around online before this reply, I came across this nifty "Power Profiler" on epa.gov: http://oaspub.epa.gov/powpro/ept_pack.charts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It allows you to see the mix of sources used to generate electricity for your region, determined by your zip code and utility that you enter/select). A lot of Wyoming and/or Illinois coal being burned in Kansas I presume? ;-)

* Electricity is cheap almost regardless of what we pay per kWh. Which is why (to bring this back on-topic) I agree that there is something "fishy" going on with the housemate and/or the reseller.

 

[ksnogas2112]

The suggestions that it's the energy reseller are probably spot on. I hadn't even heard of stuff like that. Up here we have two choices, get it from the local monopoly (around 9 cents/kwh) or do without.

Local regulated monopoly, that is -- a very different beast than your run-of-the-mill monopoly. 9 cents per kWh? We should all be so lucky! (Yes, CA PG&E customer here ;-). And yes, I know other states are even "luckier".) Imagine that, run an average refrigerator all day for 20¢ or less*!!

Incidentally, while poking around online before this reply, I came across this nifty "Power Profiler" on epa.gov: http://oaspub.epa.gov/powpro/ept_pack.charts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It allows you to see the mix of sources used to generate electricity for your region, determined by your zip code and utility that you enter/select). A lot of Wyoming and/or Illinois coal being burned in Kansas I presume? ;-)

* Electricity is cheap almost regardless of what we pay per kWh. Which is why (to bring this back on-topic) I agree that there is something "fishy" going on with the housemate and/or the reseller.

Yeah, the coal thing sucks. I see mile long coal trains moving west all the time. I just can't afford the 33-50% bump to buy the green energy options. It was so depressing to drive out in western KS a few years ago and the wind was blowing and the farms weren't spinning. Very different last summer in southwestern KS where every blade was spinning on most of the turbines.

 

[keydiver]

Buy a KillAWatt meter from your local hardware/lowes/home depot/etc. store and program the utility rate into it. It can be reset between each charge and just write down how much it cost each time to charge the Leaf, keep it in a spreadsheet and you will have the data you need that she can't argue with.

On sale on Newegg right now for $14.99 after MIR:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[knightmb]

Buy a KillAWatt meter from your local hardware/lowes/home depot/etc. store and program the utility rate into it. It can be reset between each charge and just write down how much it cost each time to charge the Leaf, keep it in a spreadsheet and you will have the data you need that she can't argue with.

On sale on Newegg right now for $14.99 after MIR:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does that one allow you to program in the $ kW/h rate to give a on the fly cost total? I didn't see it in the description anywhere. Either way, it would work, just record the kW/h used and do the math manually (though having the meter do it is also handy).

 

[Nekota]

Does that one allow you to program in the $ kW/h rate to give a on the fly cost total? I didn't see it in the description anywhere. Either way, it would work, just record the kW/h used and do the math manually (though having the meter do it is also handy).

No that one listed for $15 is the 4400 which does not retain readings or allow for electrical rate input. That model which allows for the price input and consumption total would be 4460 for $25 .

 

[wsbca]

Buy a KillAWatt meter from your local hardware/lowes/home depot/etc. store and program the utility rate into it. It can be reset between each charge and just write down how much it cost each time to charge the Leaf, keep it in a spreadsheet and you will have the data you need that she can't argue with.

On sale on Newegg right now for $14.99 after MIR:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know people have successfully used KillAWatts with the L1 EVSE (I did it myself) to determine the draw of the unit, but they can run hot under the continuous load of charging (1440 watts or so) and some folks have fried their KAWs (hopefully no fires)...I would not recommend it for continuous monitoring for billing purposes, especially from an indoor wall outlet in a rental unit.

More anecdotes here:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=14051

http://gm-volt.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-16339.html

 

[keydiver]

I agree, 12 amps continuous may be a bit much. But, if she would just record one typical charge session, to show her roommate how little power she is consuming per day, it should be enough to shut her up/calm her down.

 

[knightmb]

I've created a spreadsheet with ballpark figures that you can give/print for your room-mate. It used the lowest and highest utility rates since 2013, you need simply line up your utility rate with the percentage of charge to 100% and get a ballpark figure of electricity. It's only meant as a quick cheat sheet, doesn't account for charging losses, heat generation, etc. It is just a good way to get people that don't understand how billing from the electric utility works; a quick glance of how much it *may* cost to charge your leaf from say 0% dead or 50% depleted, etc. You can always round up for half-cent cost to get a little more accuracy (round 9.5 cents to 10 cents for example).

If your room mate can accept this, things can be better in the household. Others are welcome to use/print/distribute as well if they see fit.

Link to PDF Here:
http://knightmb.dyndns.org/files/leaf/Nissan%20Leaf%20Charge%20to%20Cost.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[EVFuture]

I'm still wondering how my bill will be affected. I guess I'll find out next month!

 

[healyourself]

First I want to say that it's been several weeks since I've logged in to the forum, and I want to thank everyone for their helpful suggestions and even a spreadsheet! Wow.

Unfortunately, I gave back the Leaf this evening. I enjoyed driving it, and will miss it.

I also paid my half of the electric bill today. I did get to see the bill and it said that her rate had been increased to 10.37 per Kwh and that she actually has two separate charges: one from Gexa for $263.87 and another from CenterPoint for $106.83. The usage was 2545 kwh from Dec 12 to Jan 15.

I don't understand why it's so high. The last night I charged the Leaf was on Jan 21. Actually it was the night before. Since then, I had been using charging stations until I returned it to the owner this evening. So we'll see what the next month's bill is going to look like.

 

[DaveEV]

Let's put it this way - it is physically impossible for a LEAF plugged into a standard outlet to use more than about 1000 kWh a month, even if it was charging 100% of the time.

120V * 12A * 24 hours * 30 days = 1037 kWh

Based on your earlier issues with the heating system, I'd say that the high energy usage is 100% caused by your HVAC system and it must be an electric heating system combined with a very drafty house and cold temperatures.

 

[RegGuheert]

I agree with others that $50.00/month is enough to cover OPs costs for charging the LEAF.

But there are still many questions about why the bill is so high. Unfortunately, there are many variables in play:

- OP moved in just as weather got cold.
- Did the person renting out the space (owner?) consider the simple fact that a new roommate will result in more electricity usage even *without* an EV? Specifically, electricity for water heating will increase (assuming an electric water heater) and, as mentioned by OP, she may prefer the temperatures warmer than the other occupant. (This is likely a significant issue.)
- The owner switched to a new energy provider since going through the last winter. I looked at GlexaEnergy and I'll be darned if I can get their website to cough up a rate plan. They claim to have low prices, but they don't seem to want to publish them. There are a LOT of ways you can price electricity and I'd be willing to bet that their plan is ONLY cheap if you use very little electricity and is strongly tiered for more electricity usage. The owner likely did not consider the possibility that any additional electricity used by a roommate would be billed at a much higher rate.
- Weather, as Zythryn mentioned:

How much colder has it been this winter than last?

Fortunately, this is something we can look at. Unfortunately, the government publishes this information for calendar months and OP is being billed from the 12th to the 11th of the month, so it is difficult to make clear conclusions in this case.

NOAA's Climate-At-A-Glance provides historical data for areas in the U.S. for different months of the year. Here are a couple of plots:

November 2014 in Houston was colder than normal (3.3F below 74-year average), but only slightly colder than November 2013 (2.6F below 74-year average). At an average temperature of 58.8F, I would think very little heat would be needed in November if the house had any reasonable amount of insulation. The exception would be if it were much colder than that during a portion of the month, which is certainly possible

December 2014, OTOH, was warmer than normal (3.6F above 74-year average) and also was warmer than 2013 (which was 2.9F BELOW average). In other words, December 2014 was 6.5F warmer than December 2013. In fact, December 2014 was 0.4F warmer than November 2014!

Unfortunately, Climate-At-A-Glance does not yet have data for January, but this map of year-to-date temperature anomalies in the U.S. shows that Houston was been below normal in January:

But that map doesn't tell the whole story. During the first three weeks of January, Texas and Houston experienced the coldest temperatures on record for the state:

As you can see, temperatures in Houston in January were 6F to 8F colder than normal. That means the average temperature during that period would have been about 47F, which would have certainly affected the bill which ended on January 11.

Bottom line is that the cold start to January likely affected that last bill, but its not clear why the bill ending December 11 would have been particularly high. The LEAF was obviously a portion of the $200, but I suspect water heating was also a factor (assuming the water heater is electric).

Looking carefully at the bills is the only way to resolve this conflict. The timing of adding a roommate just as winter started was unfortunate. I'm guessing this conflict may repeat itself in the summertime when you will be running the air conditioner.

 

[dhanson865]

I also paid my half of the electric bill today. I did get to see the bill and it said that her rate had been increased to 10.37 per Kwh and that she actually has two separate charges: one from Gexa for $263.87 and another from CenterPoint for $106.83. The usage was 2545 kwh from Dec 12 to Jan 15.

If that is 10.37 cents per kwh that isn't that bad, that's about what I pay for electricity.

2545 kwh is insanely high unless there are a lot of people living in that house.

I have a large 3 bedroom house (over 2000 sq ft) and I get electric bills with consumption around 700 kwh in the spring/fall, around 900-1100 kwh in the summer, and maybe 1100-1500 in the winter. And I still have room to reduce my power usage (I plan to add more insulation, replace inefficient TVs, and continue to replace CFLs with LEDs)

That house must be big, but it may also be:

* using incandescent light bulbs (replace with LEDs asap)
* have inefficient refrigerators (I'm assuming it has at least 2, replace with energy star rated models)
* have inefficient water heaters (maybe more than one of these as well, replace with heat pump water heater)
* insufficient attic insulation (add more)
* single pane windows (replace with modern dual pane windows)
* leaks around windows and doors (add weather stripping, replace weather stripping, etc to stop leaks)

Unless you have a dozen people living there there are huge opportunities to reduce that electric usage.

Of course if it isn't your house the only thing you can do is just turn the thermostat down 10-20 degrees in the winter time to reduce your energy usage from running the heater. And if other residents have control over the thermostat you are screwed. You'd have to just move somewhere else where the energy bills are cheaper.

 

[RegGuheert]

2545 kwh is insanely high unless there are a lot of people living in that house.

I have a large 3 bedroom house (over 2000 sq ft) and I get electric bills with consumption around 700 kwh in the spring/fall, around 900-1100 kwh in the summer, and maybe 1100-1500 in the winter.

You likely heat with a heat pump while OP likely heats with a resistor.

 

[essaunders]

That is a big bill. My 4 person (oil heated) house averages between 500 and 600kwh per month.

I have seen big spikes in my billing - up to 2x normal - when the utility makes a read mistake and then in a later month corrects it.