Ecopia EP422 tires suck

[91040]

Started running the Ecopia's at 40lbs then 44lbs about a month after getting the car. After 45k miles, they are wearing evenly with two having 9/32" tread and two with 8/32". Admittedly, I am driving very gently, mostly on freeways.
Now, based on the recommendation of two august members of this forum, I am running them at 50lbs. I like the way the car feels at this pressure but don't notice any change in range. It will be interesting to see how they wear. 2k miles this way, so far.
No, I do not recommend that anyone go over the the maximum pressure listed on the sidewall!

 

[UBUYGAS]

I have a 2013 SL and it came with Michelin Tires.

 

[JPWhite]

Seen posts here that Michelins can reduce range by up to 10%. I couldn't take the risk of reduced range as I run from 80% charge down close to LBW everyday on my new commute. In the winter I'll probably have to charge to 100%.

Put 4 new Ecopia 422's and inflated them to the same pressure as my old ones (40psi) and my range has gone from 4.9 on the dash to 4.7, about a 4% reduction. I am experiencing a much better ride and handling than before, much like the Michelin purchasers claim. So it would seem the Ecopias get 'sloppy' with age but also get better economy with age.

If my measurements are anything to go by 4% of any new tire purchase efficiency reduction can be attributed to the fact the tire is new. Michelin's may not reduce efficiency by as much as might be believed by reading the posts on MNL. I'm still happy with the Ecopia's even though they only lasted 29,000 miles, just don't want to trade any efficiency for better wear characteristics.

 

[Nubo]

Seen posts here that Michelins can reduce range by up to 10%. I couldn't take the risk of reduced range as I run from 80% charge down close to LBW everyday on my new commute. In the winter I'll probably have to charge to 100%.

Put 4 new Ecopia 422's and inflated them to the same pressure as my old ones (40psi) and my range has gone from 4.9 on the dash to 4.7, about a 4% reduction. I am experiencing a much better ride and handling than before, much like the Michelin purchasers claim. So it would seem the Ecopias get 'sloppy' with age but also get better economy with age.

If my measurements are anything to go by 4% of any new tire purchase efficiency reduction can be attributed to the fact the tire is new. Michelin's may not reduce efficiency by as much as might be believed by reading the posts on MNL. I'm still happy with the Ecopia's even though they only lasted 29,000 miles, just don't want to trade any efficiency for better wear characteristics.

A tire's rolling resistance is largely from hysteresis in flexing of the rubber so all else being equal, the tire with thinner tread will have lower RR.

 

[TomT]

All new tires get worse mileage than older tires, every thing else being equal. This is caused by the increased tread depth and by the fact that the rubber becomes harder as the tire ages. Also, but of less much significance, is that as the tires wear the circumference drops which increases the odometer reading slightly, making mileage appear slightly better..

Put 4 new Ecopia 422's and inflated them to the same pressure as my old ones (40psi) and my range has gone from 4.9 on the dash to 4.7, about a 4% reduction.

 

[SierraQ]

For the record if anyone is considering Michelin Defenders, I have replaced my nearly-bald Ecopias at 22k miles with Defenders and so far my observations are:

Traction: excellent grip--better than Ecopias!

Efficiency: slightly less perhaps but I am also up against a changed commute and battery degradation so it is hard to tell what part of this is the tire's fault, if any. That and the tires are just getting broken in. I have always used the recommended inflation.

Road Noise: slightly more. On highways I notice a slight "wind noise" coming from my door (as if the seal had a small hole) which started after getting the tires. I can only assume this is new noise from the tires since the seal is fine. It is not bothersome in the least.

Tread Life: Obviously hard to say but zero signs of the sides wearing out so far.

Overall I am very pleased.

 

[UBUYGAS]

My Michelin's are very Noisy, they seem to pick up every single little pebble and those pebbles make so much noise.

Road Noise: slightly more. On highways I notice a slight "wind noise" coming from my door (as if the seal had a small hole) which started after getting the tires. I can only assume this is new noise from the tires since the seal is fine. It is not bothersome in the least.

 

[Stanton]

Since it came up, thought I'd give an update on my Michelin Defenders after about 3000 miles:

I went back into my CarWings data (complain about CW all you want, but at least I'm comparing apples-to-apples) and here's what I've got for a comparison during like climate, etc.:

June 2012 = 4.6 m/kWh
June 2013 = 4.3 m/kWh

While I don't expect to "equal" the Ecopias, I seem to have gone from about a 10% "penalty" to about 5+%. Even more interesting is it looks like my highway "penalty" is not as bad as the city (or the overall, since I can't really break it out that closely). I would guess the Defenders are NO WORSE on the highway than the Ecopias, and I can't quite figure out why.

Overall, I don't regret dumping the Ecopias, and the Michelins handle/ride great.

 

[TaylorSFGuy]

I wouldn't say they are all bad - my set getting changed out at 90K miles - just in time for the fall rain. Pretty much all freeway driving and not aggressive. Might move to a set of Michelins though.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The Defenders are a lower grade Michelin tire. Same as the low grade model Michelin found on the OEM 2013 Nissan. These are not in the same category as other Michelin models.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I wouldn't say they are all bad - my set getting changed out at 90K miles - just in time for the fall rain. Pretty much all freeway driving and not aggressive. Might move to a set of Michelins though.

the Michelins will give you slightly less range but by most accounts are a better and longer lasting tire but at 90,000 miles that is probably not your main concern!

I think i need to ease up on those roundabouts but its just too much fun to zip away from those things!

 

[edatoakrun]

I wouldn't say they are all bad - my set getting changed out at 90K miles - just in time for the fall rain. Pretty much all freeway driving and not aggressive. Might move to a set of Michelins though.

I think a major reason the ecopias are perceived as having poor tread wear is that many are not taking into the account that they may be driving far fewer freeway miles on their LEAFs, than they did on cars where the tires lasted much longer.

On my last ICEV daily driver, the same make tire lasted over 40k miles when I drove ~50% freeway (slight grades, with no sharp curves and few stops, pulling very little rubber off the tread per mile) and ~50% Mountain (sharp turns, steep grades with far more stops) then dropped to under 30 k miles of life when that ratio dropped to ~25%.

My stock ecopias with ~21k miles are close to their end now due to shoulder wear, but that is with my LEAF's ~80% use in mountain driving.

The last few k miles at ~48, vs ~43 PSI looks to have helped both tread wear and low-speed m/kWh, so I'll probably be replacing them with Ecopias in the next few k miles, and run ~48 PSI from the beginning on my new set.

 

[TomT]

My driving pattern in the Leaf is 90% the same as it was in my previous ICE. The Ecopias were still crap, so I have to call foul on that, at least for me...

I think a major reason the ecopias are perceived as having poor tread wear is that many are not taking into the account that they may be driving far fewer freeway miles on their LEAFs, than they did on cars where the tires lasted much longer.

 

[cossie1600]

Bridgestone makes good and bad tires, you can't compare brand

 

[UBUYGAS]

There's another LEAF in my town and it's a 2012 with Ecopia's and it has plugs, patches and bulges on every tire.


Sounds like NISSAN should replace all the Ecopia's. Didn't Ford owners have an issue with firestone tires and ford replaced them all?

 

[JPWhite]

Sounds like NISSAN should replace all the Ecopia's. Didn't Ford owners have an issue with firestone tires and ford replaced them all?

Ford threw Firestone under the bus to cover the fact the explorer had a tendency to become unstable and roll over in a rear tiire blowout situation. They then quietly improved the explorer. Car manufactures have a lot of influence over tire design and specs. If a tire has a problem its a joint issue between the tire manufacturer and the car manufacturer.

If Steve marsh can go 90000 miles on ecopias they aren't faulty. IMHO the issue is the LEAFs high toque off the line and great handling around curves. It's fun to drive, which increases tire wear if you take advantage of its great capabilities. Notice the 2013 LEAF has less torque.

 

[DaveEV]

If Steve marsh can go 90000 miles on ecopias they aren't faulty. IMHO the issue is the LEAFs high toque off the line and great handling around curves. It's fun to drive, which increases tire wear if you take advantage of its great capabilities. Notice the 2013 LEAF has less torque.

I don't think torque has all that much to do with it, but the suspension definitely lets the front tires roll over too much with any amount of cornering - the sidewalls of the Ecopias could be a bit soft for the weight of the LEAF as well allowing additional tire roll. A bit of negative camber in the front would alleviate these issues. After rotating tires to the rear, it's easy to see that the outside shoulder does wear more quickly, especially evident with the negative camber in the rear.

All that said, I'm personally not seeing wear that's too far out of the ordinary with regular rotations. The tread design of the Ecopias also make it look like the shoulder wears faster than it really is as the blocks are mostly solid once you get about halfway down. I've currently got over 20k on mine - I expect to get at least 30k out of them which is typical for OEM tires.

 

[TomT]

Actually, the problem is just the opposite... The Leaf has poor suspension geometry. The only thing that saves its handling at all is the low and central CG and polar moment...

If Steve marsh can go 90000 miles on ecopias they aren't faulty. IMHO the issue is the LEAFs high toque off the line and great handling around curves.

 

[cossie1600]

Great handling? My Prius can murder the leAf in the turns

 

[derkraut]

Great handling? My Prius can murder the leAf in the turns

Really??? I've found just the opposite. :?