Driving range display 'changes' after NTB11038 Svc Campaign

[IBELEAF]

I mentioned after update I had lower range estimate, but later discovered that was only in Carwings because car estimate is working fine. So, did anyone else notice their Carwings estimate is no longer correct? For me it's showing about 20-30% below what the car estimator is showing.

 

[ttweed]

I mentioned after update I had lower range estimate, but later discovered that was only in Carwings because car estimate is working fine. So, did anyone else notice their Carwings estimate is no longer correct? For me it's showing about 20-30% below what the car estimator is showing.

Yes, I noticed this same behavior when I charged to 100% for the first time after the update. I checked Carwings from my computer the next morning to make sure it had charged all the way up, and it said 12 of 12 bars, but only 73 miles est. range! We had been getting 83 miles est. from an 80% charge, so I went out to the car and turned it on. The dash display showed 103 miles immediately, and when I put it in ECO mode it went to 107 briefly, so there was definitely a discrepancy w/ the Carwings range est. of about 30%. I thought to myself "Oh, Carwings must use the EPA est. now and the car is still on LA4." :roll:

TT

 

[evnow]

After charging to 100% I drove 92 miles before I plugged the car with 0 bars left, 5 miles to go, and 4.8 miles per kwh on the dash screen.
The "low charge" warning started at 10 miles to go.
The last SOC bar disappeared at 6 miles to go. (I have not seen 0 bars before the update)

So, using the 4.8 m/kwh and the 92 miles driven would give us 19.2 kwh usable. Add the 1 kwh or so left (5 miles to go) - and we get about 20 kwh usable. This may or may not be the actual battery usable capacity - but this is what we should use as the capacity when trying to figure out the SOC % at anytime using the miles driven & m/kwh reported. Someone reported in a similar way about 21 kwh of usable capacity.

Energy Left kwh = 20 - (Miles Driven / MPKWH )

SOC % = 5 * Energy Left kwh

 

[jason98]

So, using the 4.8 m/kwh and the 92 miles driven would give us 19.2 kwh usable. Add the 1 kwh or so left (5 miles to go) - and we get about 20 kwh usable. This may or may not be the actual battery usable capacity - but this is what we should use as the capacity when trying to figure out the SOC % at anytime using the miles driven & m/kwh reported. Someone reported in a similar way about 21 kwh of usable capacity.

Energy Left kwh = 20 - (Miles Driven / MPKWH )

SOC % = 5 * Energy Left kwh

It is actually not clear to me whether it is 20 kwh usable plus 4 unusable or whether it is all 24 usable but 4 lost in battery-to-motor (and back) conversions.

 

[turbo2ltr]

Ok guys, got some info.

Gonewild let me poke around his updated car and we initially had some trouble collecting data and that's because they changed quite a bit 'under the hood'.

Before, the BMS would decide how many bars to show, and the VMC used a battery capacity value as a basis for it's range estimates.

After the update, the VMC now uses the battery capacity value to calculate both range and the bars.

I can tell you with great confidence that the battery warnings and turtle mode come at the same battery capacity as before the update so they did not take any capacity away. Of course they could have "remapped" this capacity value but my semi-educated guess is they didn't.

I believe that what they did is added more padding to the bottom end of the range and SOC bars. They moved the gauge's range from 0 to 100% to 10 to 100%. So now there is an extra 10% (or whatever, I don't know the exact number) below the zero point. But keep in mind: It's still usable just like it was before the update! It just means the battery warnings will come at a lower *displayed* range/bar value. I personally believe that nissan thinks a 2 mile range and no bars is a stronger incentive to get some juice than a low battery warning when you still have 18 miles and 2 bars left.

I will need some extended time with a car to figure out exactly how much it changed (any volunteers?) . I did a couple tests and did see that you now lose bars at a higher battery level than you did previously, but I'd like to map it out.

 

[palmermd]

I personally believe that nissan thinks a 2 mile range and no bars is a stronger incentive to get some juice than a low battery warning when you still have 18 miles and 2 bars left.

So we had a real (but course) SOC meter before, with a strange range calculation, and now we don't have a real SOC meter since it shows 0 when there is still some (yet to be determined) amount of capacity left and the same strange range calculation.

That does match what I've seen so far. Not the way I'd have updated the two displays, but we'll soon have aftermarket options for correcting this display I'm sure. I may work one up myself in the mean time.

 

[jason98]

I think I know where exactly Nissan screwed up with the Range meter.
Did you notice that after the recharge, the estimated range is ALWAYS overly optimistic?
I believe it is because Nissan wants to say "See your initial range is what we actually advertised. And now it all depends on how you are going to drive".
And then you drive as usual, same average miles per kwh, and you observe how the range and SOC bar drop too fast initially. And then you drive some more and finally towards the end of the charge, both SOC and Range become realistic.

My theory is that they do not want to admit they they are 25% off of their advertised range and that is why they are getting so "creative" with these strange SOC/Range calculations.

 

[DarkStar]

Ok guys, got some info.

Gonewild let me poke around his updated car and we initially had some trouble collecting data and that's because they changed quite a bit 'under the hood'.

Before, the BMS would decide how many bars to show, and the VMC used a battery capacity value as a basis for it's range estimates.

After the update, the VMC now uses the battery capacity value to calculate both range and the bars.

I can tell you with great confidence that the battery warnings and turtle mode come at the same battery capacity as before the update so they did not take any capacity away. Of course they could have "remapped" this capacity value but my semi-educated guess is they didn't.

I believe that what they did is added more padding to the bottom end of the range and SOC bars. They moved the gauge's range from 0 to 100% to 10 to 100%. So now there is an extra 10% (or whatever, I don't know the exact number) below the zero point. But keep in mind: It's still usable just like it was before the update! It just means the battery warnings will come at a lower *displayed* range/bar value. I personally believe that nissan thinks a 2 mile range and no bars is a stronger incentive to get some juice than a low battery warning when you still have 18 miles and 2 bars left.

I will need some extended time with a car to figure out exactly how much it changed (any volunteers?) . I did a couple tests and did see that you now lose bars at a higher battery level than you did previously, but I'd like to map it out.

Woot! I humbly submit my post on the 23rd as my official guess of the change!

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=83914#p83914

 

[sdbonez]

Woot! I humbly submit my post on the 23rd as my official guess of the change!

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=83914#p83914

I'm so glad I'm not losing it.

I'll also humbly submit my 1st post for this thread as backup to your estimate (since I take my Leaf down from 12 bars to ~2-3 bars daily and guesstimated ~10%). Actually I'm thinking it's closer to 8% but now I'm splitting hairs

 

[DarkStar]

I'm so glad I'm not losing it.

You were not the only one!

 

[Spies]

I will need some extended time with a car to figure out exactly how much it changed (any volunteers?)

Still not ready to get the update yourself I see

I would volunteer but I am about 740 miles away from you and I have not had the update done either. Looking forward to the detailed analysis and thanks again for all your hard work and sharing what you find.

 

[jason98]

Morning commute today from 80% charge:

Initial range: 97 miles in ECO mode
distance: 15 miles
1st SOC bar gone: after 2.5 miles
2nd bar: after 6 miles
3rd bar: after 12 miles
Range at destination: 65 miles in ECO (I think it is more or less real)
avg efficiency: 5.5 miles/kwh

97 miles estimate initially is what I believe Nissan's advertised range for my average driving style.
I believe I am supposed to get around 120-130 miles on 100% charge - No A/C, 40 mph max.
In reality I am close to 100 miles seems like

 

[bowthom]

Hello,
Got the call so I took my Leaf into PD for reprogramming yesterday 4/29/11. They kept the car 5 hours. I was told it was their first update and they wanted to take their time and double check everything. When I picked it up it had been driven 1.5 miles, was charged to 100% and was shiny clean. The charge timer was cleared so I re-set all of my user settings.

Carwings report today did not show even 1 ignition cycle during it's visit to the dealer and the 1.5 mile trip on the odometer was not recorded. :?

Now I just have to get used to any SOC / range calc changes over the next few days.

 

[Lopton]

What do you think of their service department? The sales department was absolutely terrible back when I was shopping for my PD in August but perhaps the Service Department is better...

Their service department (mission hills nissan) was great for customer service, and ok for the actual work. I guess I was the first person to get the update done, and it took them 3 hours. But they were nice, and washed the car. I will go back for there for warranty work.

-Matt

 

[ericsf]

My local dealer had scheduled my appointment without checking at a technician would be here to do the update. I showed up this morning and after a few minutes they told me I came for nothing. Later I could hear them calling the other customers they had scheduled for today to cancel their appointments.

Despite their best efforts looks like the Nissan dealers have not yet fully registered that the LEAF is not just another car that any mechanic can service. That doesn't make me feel very comfortable for when the the first real problems will occur.

 

[EVDRIVER]

My local dealer had scheduled my appointment without checking at a technician would be here to do the update. I showed up this morning and after a few minutes they told me I came for nothing. Later I could hear them calling the other customers they had scheduled for today to cancel their appointments.

Despite their best efforts looks like the Nissan dealers have not yet fully registered that the LEAF is not just another car that any mechanic can service. That doesn't make me feel very comfortable for when the the first real problems will occur.

Sereamonte Nissan?

 

[ericsf]

Yes

 

[EVDRIVER]

Yes

I thought so. Does anyone know how long the upgrade takes, the actual work part once the tech gets the car?

 

[Lopton]

Yes

I thought so. Does anyone know how long the upgrade takes, the actual work part once the tech gets the car?

it seems to vary based on the tech level of experience, I have seen from 5 hours to 1 1/2 hours. Mine personally took 3 hours.

-Matt

 

[EVDRIVER]

Yes

I thought so. Does anyone know how long the upgrade takes, the actual work part once the tech gets the car?

it seems to vary based on the tech level of experience, I have seen from 5 hours to 1 1/2 hours. Mine personally took 3 hours.

-Matt

Wow, I heard 15 min from one poster but that is a big difference. I wonder why it takes so much time. There must be some testing procedure as a download should not take that long. If NIssan sends a tech out to homes do they expect them to be there for hours? Ouch!