DIY install, help me be as code compliant as possible please

[lion]

Well installing a plug would definitely making this process a lot easier, especially for inspection. The EVSE has screw terminals, so in theory, it should be easy to hook up a plug. Looks like the install manual for the plug-in version of this EVSE mentions a 6-50 receptacle tho.

Which plug/receptacle would be the best combo, knowing I will get my OEM EVSE upgraded in the future?

This thread took a turn ...

 

[davewill]

Which plug/receptacle would be the best combo, knowing I will get my OEM EVSE upgraded in the future?

This thread took a turn ...

The 6-50 seems to be the one that EVSEs are coming with most often. The EVSE upgrade will come with an L6-30, but that plug isn't appropriate for your AV EVSE which needs more amperage. But no worries, since most people who own an upgrade also own a plethora of adapters for common plugs they might meet in their travels. At home, I use a homemade L6-30r to 6-50p adapter.

In your install, I'd use the 6-50. The 14-50 is also popular. It's used for RVs and electric ranges. However, it requires 4 conductors (2 hots, neutral and ground), which means running a thicker cable. Unless those other uses are interesting to you, I stick with the three conductor 6-50.

 

[lion]

Agreed, the 6-50 is what I would like to stick with. Hopefully the connector/cable is sold locally (guessing there isn't a 6-50 version of a 'dryer cable kit').

This looks like it would mount nicely on a box, will have to check it out in store.

 

[Ingineer]

I also highly recommend a standard 6-50 plug rather than the disconnect. It's totally NEC compliant UNLESS it's outdoors.

Then if your AV craps out, needs warranty, etc, it's a simple unplug operation. You can also buy the AV unit with a 6-50 plug ready to go.

If a friend comes over with a Tesla Model S, he can plug in with is UMC and charge at 40A. Also, you can get your Nissan EVSE upgraded as a backup. We sell a 6-50 adapter that will allow it to plug right in, then you have a nice backup solution all ready to go. You could also add a 50' L6-30 extension, then you'd also be able to extend charging up to 75' outside if ever needed.

-Phil

 

[lion]

Definitely staying indoors, so I guess it's a done deal, and going to attach a 6-50 plug instead, assuming I can find the right wire and hardware at my local HD/Lowes.

 

[Ingineer]

Yes, HD/Lowes stocks all that you need (normally). I'd recommend #6 AWG romex (6-2 WG). If the romex you get has a black and a white, tape the white to be red. (rare)

I'd also recommend a metal box rather than plastic. You'd be better off with a dual-gang even though the receptacle will work in a single.

-Phil

 

[kolmstead]

Lion, that cheap HD disconnect is crap. I bought one. Plug and socket much better choice.

-Karl

 

[Deleted member 9549]

I'd like to install a 14-50 outlet in my garage, hook it up to a new 40A circuit. In my case its a run across an unfinished basement, around 60 feet. I assuming I should use 8-3 Romex NM-B wire.

Where I'd ideally like to locate it in the garage is several feet away from where the basement meets. I was thinking of running the wire along the wall in conduit rather than break open the wall and drill holes in the studs. Its a major load bearing wall.

The other alternative is to place it on a different wall with easy access up from the basement but where its close to a sink. I'm planning to use a GFCI 40A breaker.

Is this sort of work supposed to be inspected in all states?

Thanks

 

[DaveEV]

Alternatively, you could consider using smurf tube

I thought smurf tube was only for low-voltage wiring (common on home-theater installs, networking, etc)? Hmm, looks like it may be OK to use for high-voltage wiring as long it stays inside?

 

[Ingineer]

I'd like to install a 14-50 outlet in my garage, hook it up to a new 40A circuit. In my case its a run across an unfinished basement, around 60 feet. I assuming I should use 8-3 Romex NM-B wire.

Where I'd ideally like to locate it in the garage is several feet away from where the basement meets. I was thinking of running the wire along the wall in conduit rather than break open the wall and drill holes in the studs. Its a major load bearing wall.

The other alternative is to place it on a different wall with easy access up from the basement but where its close to a sink. I'm planning to use a GFCI 40A breaker.

Is this sort of work supposed to be inspected in all states?

Thanks

I'd recommend upgrading to #6, especially at that length, as it's not much more expensive. You could also then install a 50A breaker to allow higher future loads. I'd use EMT or at least PVC for any exposed cable in your garage. I don't recommend "smurf" tube. If you do use a GFCI, make sure it's got a 10ma or greater trip current. Many of the 240V GFCI breakers are sensitive types intended for hot-tubs, and they will likely nuisance trip with EV charging. Since the EVSE has an internal GFCI, you could skip it anyway as long as the outlet is inside.

-Phil

 

[wwhitney]

I've only used Electrical Nonmetallic Tubing (ENT, or smurf tube) once but I was happy with it. I think of it like NM cable, so I would only use it where I would use unsleeved NM cable, e.g. within framing members. Like NM cable, it can not be used where exposed to physical damage. Compared to something like EMT, it seems very flimsy, but if you are comparing it to NM cable, it seems at least as durable.

Also, if you use PVC conduit to sleeve NM cable to protect it from physical damage, you need to use Schedule 80 PVC conduit (2008 NEC 334.15(B))

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

Is this sort of work supposed to be inspected in all states?

To my knowledge, yes. And as an experienced Owner/Builder (DIYer), I would want the benefit of a second set of eyes on my work.

Cheers< Wayne

 

[iluvmacs]

I also highly recommend a standard 6-50 plug rather than the disconnect. It's totally NEC compliant UNLESS it's outdoors.
-Phil

When installing a friend's EVLink a few months ago, we were originally going to "convert" it to plug-and-socket rather than use a disconnect. The inspector rejected this, saying it violated NEC to use a product designed for hardwiring in a pluggable installation. Maybe he was full of it; maybe it really is the law (or just locally?). Personally, I see how that could violate the UL listing, etc., on the EVSE, but it should have nothing to do with the NEC that governs the wiring in the house, which is all the inspector should be concerned with. Ye be warned...

 

[QueenBee]

You might say, aha, I can use 6/3 NM and relabel the white conductor as a green conductor to meet 250.122(B). But 250.119 requires that for #6 and smaller, the EGC has actual green (or bare for NM) insulation, and only permits relabeling for larger than #6.

Oops, when my electrician friend helped me install my new service panel we used black #6 THHN because that's what he had. I then later used it on my solar PV since I had it left over. Passed both inspections relabeling it with green tape. In the context of a single #6 running around outside of conduit it's not likely that anyone would confuse it for anything other than a grounding conductor but lame that it's not installed to code

 

[Ingineer]

When installing a friend's EVLink a few months ago, we were originally going to "convert" it to plug-and-socket rather than use a disconnect. The inspector rejected this, saying it violated NEC to use a product designed for hardwiring in a pluggable installation. Maybe he was full of it; maybe it really is the law (or just locally?).

Inspectors are notorious for "creative interpretation", and unfortunately you really have no choice but to appease them. Many wall-mount EVSE's can be ordered with a plug, and many ship with one pre-installed, such as the Blink.

-Phil

 

[91040]

Confused about the ground wire size in relation to the current carrying wires. Looking at the chart (2008 NEC 250.122(B))- do you ever have to size a copper ground bigger than #8, up to 100A or #6, up to 200A?

Thanks.

If you run #6 copper and put it on a breaker that is 40 amps or smaller, you create a technical violation. That is because there is a rule in the grounding section (2008 NEC 250.122(B)) that says if you increase the ungrounded conductors in size, you have to increase the EGC in size proportionately. Since a 40 amp circuit could be run in #8 copper NM, and both #6 and #8 copper NM have a #10 copper EGC, if you put #6 NM on a 40 amp breaker, you have upsized the ungrounded conductors without upsizing the EGC. This is a rule that doesn't make sense in this context, but is there none the less. I think it is intended for the situation where you upsize the ungrounded conductors for, say, voltage drop.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

Confused about the ground wire size in relation to the current carrying wires. Looking at the chart (2008 NEC 250.122(B))- do you ever have to size a copper ground bigger than #8, up to 100A or #6, up to 200A?

The chart is Table 250.122. The answer to your question is yes, to comply with 250.122(B). That section says if you have made the ungrounded conductor(s) larger than required, then you have to make the EGC larger than normal. As an example, it is a violation of 250.122(B) to land NM Cu 6/2 cable on a 40 amp breaker, odd as that sounds.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[mikeEmike]

When installing a friend's EVLink a few months ago, we were originally going to "convert" it to plug-and-socket rather than use a disconnect. The inspector rejected this, saying it violated NEC to use a product designed for hardwiring in a pluggable installation. Maybe he was full of it; maybe it really is the law (or just locally?).

Inspectors are notorious for "creative interpretation", and unfortunately you really have no choice but to appease them. Many wall-mount EVSE's can be ordered with a plug, and many ship with one pre-installed, such as the Blink.

-Phil

Initially, I wanted to go with a plug and socket for my EVSE as well (which didn't come pre-wired with a plug), but when I asked if it was OK, the utility inspector said it wouldn't pass because it would violate the UL listing, which is required for the rebate offered by the utility (LADWP). A few months later, a neighbor installed an EVSE with a plug (not pre-wired) and socket, but was required by a different inspector from the same utility to staple the plug to the wall in order to pass the inspection. Obviously that's not going to prevent a UL violation if it was a violation to begin with (to add a plug). Maybe I shouldn't have asked the inspector beforehand since I don't think they have much product knowledge of which ones come pre-wired and which ones don't, but I'm guessing he was right that it would violate the UL listing since the UL didn't test that setup.

 

[DaveEV]

As an example, it is a violation of 250.122(B) to land NM Cu 6/2 cable on a 40 amp breaker, odd as that sounds.

That sure is odd. What is the logic there? NM-6 is good for 55A so would be used for a 50A circuit. But if you hook it up to a 40A breaker instead of a 50A breaker, you need a ground proportionally larger than the 10 GA required for for a 40A circuit, despite the fact that a 10GA ground is fine for up to a 60A circuit. By proportionally larger, does that mean you need an 8GA ground instead of a 10GA ground? Not sure what the "circular mil area" of wires are...

 

[shikataganai]

Two comments harkening back from the first page of the thread:

1) If you're going to be running the cable laterally across rafters or studs then you should bore a hole through said wood (at least 1.25" from each edge of it, so right in the middle for a 2x4") and run the cable through there. If it's "supported" by running through holes in the studs then it doesn't need to be stapled along its run, afaik, except for initially within 12" from the panel as QueenBee noted.

2) Technically 6 gauge and larger wire can be stapled to the underside of rafters instead of being bored, but I don't think that'd fly for the front of studs as it'd be unprotected to direct impact.

3) If you're going to put drywall over the studs at some future point then that's yet another reason to bore holes and have the wiring protected/out of the way. Can't have drywall over surface-stapled cable or wires.