Did you reserve a Tesla Model 3 ?

[evnow]

Nissan can't do that unless they change their minds about including a temperature management system for the battery. Charging at 90-135 kW is just too much heat for current tech Li-ion batteries. Nissan seems adamant that they are not going to use a TMS. .

1.5C or 2C is not too much. 135kW won't be too much for the next gen Leaf with 60 kWh battery - which might be quite different, anyway.

Current Leafs charge at 2C.

 

[dm33]

Reserved. Insanely late. Will be 2020 at best, more likely 2021. Figure I should support the cause. In 4 years, they should have time to work out the kinks. We will have had our new ICE long enough to be reasonable to sell. Figure a large percentage of the reservations will end up cancelling so we'll move up in the list.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Nissan can't do that unless they change their minds about including a temperature management system for the battery. Charging at 90-135 kW is just too much heat for current tech Li-ion batteries. Nissan seems adamant that they are not going to use a TMS. .

1.5C or 2C is not too much. 135kW won't be too much for the next gen Leaf with 60 kWh battery - which might be quite different, anyway.

Current Leafs charge at 2C.

My concern, which is perhaps unwarranted, is that by doubling (or tripling) the size of the battery you also increase the mass and make it even more difficult for it to shed heat unless it is designed to have a lot of surface area or effective heat sinks (or TMS, of course). And current LEAF batteries heat up quite a bit during DCFC, as you know, and I think it is fair to say that the heating leads to increased degradation.

Maybe you could get away with it in your ideal LEAF climate in the PNW, but what about Supercharging in Phoenix or Palm Springs in summer?

 

[evnow]

My concern, which is perhaps unwarranted, is that by doubling (or tripling) the size of the battery you also increase the mass and make it even more difficult for it to shed heat unless it is designed to have a lot of surface area or effective heat sinks (or TMS, of course). And current LEAF batteries heat up quite a bit during DCFC, as you know, and I think it is fair to say that the heating leads to increased degradation.

Maybe you could get away with it in your ideal LEAF climate in the PNW, but what about Supercharging in Phoenix or Palm Springs in summer?

We are getting far too OT - so let us just say - we don't know what we don't know. But I'd put the chances of next gen Leaf (or for that matter any EV from any large OEM) using supercharger is next to nil. Unless Tesla garners some 10% of the auto market quickly, nobody is going to throw in the towel.

 

[redLEAF]

Sounds like Tesla has already thought of ways to help maximize the amount of buyers that would get the full $7,500 Fed Tax Credit when it hits the magic 200K in sales ... I've seen some discussions of how the IRS deduction runs and will taper off but this is the easiest to follow (if of course true)

http://gas2.org/2016/04/10/tesla-will-adjust-model-3-production-to-maximize-tax-credits/


All this interest in the Model 3 is making people nervous about whether the federal tax credit will still be available when their Model 3 is manufactured. The answer lies buried deep within IRS Code Section 30D. I won’t burden you with the actual language. As usual, it is unintelligible to mere mortals. But here’s the gist of it.

Once Tesla sells its 200,000th car in America, the federal tax credit shifts from a focus on how many cars have been sold to when they are sold. For example, let’s assume Tesla sells it 200,000th car on January 1, 2018. During the rest of that quarter and for the entire quarter following, every car it sells will get the tax credit. If it could build and deliver 200,000 cars during those 2 quarters, every one of them would be eligible for the federal tax credit.


If this is true ... you could potentially easily see another say 78K (3K/week X 26 weeks in 2 quarters) as long as:

... need the factory ready to produce its projected maximum of 3,000 cars a week right from the get go ...

 

[keydiver]

Yes, and it doesn't end there. For the next 6 months after that, every US buyer is entitled to a $3750 tax credit, and during the final 6 months they can still qualify for $1875. That might not sound so great, except many Model 3 buyers don't have $7500 worth of tax debt anyway. I know that many Leaf owners on here only got a portion of the $7500 credit.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Yes, and it doesn't end there. For the next 6 months after that, every US buyer is entitled to a $3750 tax credit, and during the final 6 months they can still qualify for $1875. That might not sound so great, except many Model 3 buyers don't have $7500 worth of tax debt anyway. I know that many Leaf owners on here only got a portion of the $7500 credit.

Really? People buying 35k+ cars don't have a federal tax obligation of at least $7500?

 

[Firetruck41]

Yes, and it doesn't end there. For the next 6 months after that, every US buyer is entitled to a $3750 tax credit, and during the final 6 months they can still qualify for $1875. That might not sound so great, except many Model 3 buyers don't have $7500 worth of tax debt anyway. I know that many Leaf owners on here only got a portion of the $7500 credit.

Really? People buying 35k+ cars don't have a federal tax obligation of at least $7500?

Sure. I know someone who makes 6 figures who could buy a 35k car, that pays less than that in fed tax, with no funny stuff...

 

[Rebel44]

Yes, and it doesn't end there. For the next 6 months after that, every US buyer is entitled to a $3750 tax credit, and during the final 6 months they can still qualify for $1875. That might not sound so great, except many Model 3 buyers don't have $7500 worth of tax debt anyway. I know that many Leaf owners on here only got a portion of the $7500 credit.

Really? People buying 35k+ cars don't have a federal tax obligation of at least $7500?

Plenty of people dont have $7500 tax liability after mortgage interest and other tax deductions.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Really? People buying 35k+ cars don't have a federal tax obligation of at least $7500?

Income has nothing to do with whether one can afford to buy a car. I'd have to stretch to qualify for the 25% tax credit ($1875) but could easily afford to buy a Model 3. I retired young (age 45) by being thrifty and saving like mad, and now live comfortably on very little. That allows me to purchase frivolous toys like expensive EVs. What one's income is has little to do with how much one has, especially for retirees.

How little? I paid $617 in federal income and self-employment (FICA) taxes last year. Don't judge everyone by the many who spend every dollar they earn. Some of us live differently.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Yes, and it doesn't end there. For the next 6 months after that, every US buyer is entitled to a $3750 tax credit, and during the final 6 months they can still qualify for $1875. That might not sound so great, except many Model 3 buyers don't have $7500 worth of tax debt anyway. I know that many Leaf owners on here only got a portion of the $7500 credit.

Really? People buying 35k+ cars don't have a federal tax obligation of at least $7500?

I don't... not even close

 

[redLEAF]

Yes, and it doesn't end there. For the next 6 months after that, every US buyer is entitled to a $3750 tax credit, and during the final 6 months they can still qualify for $1875. That might not sound so great, except many Model 3 buyers don't have $7500 worth of tax debt anyway. I know that many Leaf owners on here only got a portion of the $7500 credit.

Really? People buying 35k+ cars don't have a federal tax obligation of at least $7500?

I don't... not even close

To get the $7,500 Fed Tax Credit (based on 2016 tax rates) you would have AGI of a bit over $45K if single (other categories a bit higher); your AGI (adjusted-gross-income) can vary with 401K contributions, etc. so the above is just an average --- many have debated that this should simply be a cash rebate (anyone remember the 'cash for clunker's' incentives of a few years back?) so at least they do have the lease option where you don't need to have that much in tax liability but some still don't like this --- retiree's for one.

 

[asimba2]

redleaf is right. Take the following example: $75k annual salary - $12,600 standard deduction -$6000 annual 401(k) contribution - $1000 child tax credit and you're under $7500 in tax obligation. That's without writing anything off.

 

[dgpcolorado]

To get the $7,500 Fed Tax Credit (based on 2016 tax rates) you would have AGI of a bit over $45K if single (other categories a bit higher); your AGI (adjusted-gross-income) can vary with 401K contributions, etc. so the above is just an average --- many have debated that this should simply be a cash rebate (anyone remember the 'cash for clunker's' incentives of a few years back?) so at least they do have the lease option where you don't need to have that much in tax liability but some still don't like this --- retiree's for one.

Actually you need an AGI of about $57k if single using the standard deduction ($6300) and one personal exemption ($4000). A couple with the standard deduction and two exemptions would need an AGI of about $77k to generate a tax bill of $7500. Add in kids or Schedule A deductions and the income required for the full tax credit could be quite a bit higher.

 

[ampitupco]

If you reserved a Model 3 and want to share your info check out:

https://model3tracker.info

 

[redLEAF]

A potential future derivation based on the new Model 3 coming (sorry if this is a duplicate post but after a quick MNL search did not see it referenced)

http://learnbonds.com/130160/cool-new-tesla-roadster-could-be-based-on-tesla-model-3/

As with the original Tesla roadster, this could be one quick car with it being scaled down as a roadster versus sedan

 

[jlv]

They are moving to a grill-less front end, so I'm not sure why this is pictured would be pictured with one.

 

[redLEAF]

These really fall under this thread ... Why wait (new BMW 330e ad's) for the Model 3 ?? It never specifically calls out the Tesla (although the 2nd ad briefly shows some 'generic' supercharger stations) but we ALL know who they're referring to ... with only 14 to 18 miles (depends on driving style, etc.) of pure electric range I kinda doubt that someone would truly be cross shopping these but who knows

Apparently, they're planning a series of these ...

http://electrek.co/2016/08/05/bmw-tesla-model-3-ridiculous-commercial/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v0QKtPXEFQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf7KvtGNMbQ

 

[GRA]

A tomgue-in-cheek mathematical formula for when the Model 3 will actually arrive, from the September Car & Driver via IEVS:

Car & Driver Predicts First Model 3 Deliveries Will Begin In Late 2019

http://insideevs.com/car-driver-predicts-first-model-3-deliveries-will-begin-in-late-2019/

 

[redLEAF]

Daytime Model 3 interior shot during testing ...

https://electrek.co/2016/08/29/tesla-model-3-rare-new-picture-inside-working-prototype/


Plus a few more ...

http://insideevs.com/new-interior-image-of-tesla-model-3-surfaces/