Dealer couldn't perform battery test

[garygid]

Thus, most LEAFs (with the New-Bar firmware) would need to be discharged to near the bottom of the last visible Bar (near LBW).

 

[LakeLeaf]

If anyone really does get a detailed cell loss inspection report - that is something the details the state of each of the cells - please post it!

The only thing we've seen is the report that the battery still has more then 11/12's of its original capacity left.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i would have to guess a detailed report would not measure more than would be replaced so we would be looking at a 24 module measurement and not 96 cell measurement since individual cells would not be replaced.

of all of the ones that went to the Leaf drive event. did anyone bother to count the # of battery modules in the tear down display?

 

[brettcgb]

i would have to guess a detailed report would not measure more than would be replaced so we would be looking at a 24 module measurement and not 96 cell measurement since individual cells would not be replaced.

of all of the ones that went to the Leaf drive event. did anyone bother to count the # of battery modules in the tear down display?

A good photo suggests there are 48 modules.

 

[garygid]

There are 48 modules.
Each has two cell-pairs (4 cells), and both cell-pairs must be measured.
Thus, 96 measurements to examine for an under-performing module.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

There are 48 modules.
Each has two cell-pairs (4 cells), and both cell-pairs must be measured.
Thus, 96 measurements to examine for an under-performing module.

but a cell pair would not be replaced so why measure it? sure its nice to head off a repair down the line by being proactive upfront and when you find a car dealer like that, please let me know

 

[garygid]

If you do not measure it, you are unable to determine if it is good or bad.

All 96 of the cell-pairs are wired in series. If any one cell-pair is "bad", it should be replaced, usually requiring the other cell-pair (often not "bad") in the same module to also be replaced as the module is replaced.

A cell-pair is really two cells physically wired in parallel, so they perform as "one". Then, the two individual cells cannot be measured separately (unless they are physically disconnected from each other).

 

[TLeaf]

Had my annual check-up performed last Friday and didn't even get a "xx out of 12" print-out, just a verbal statement that the battery read-out was fine and that the brakes and tires were looking great.

 

[Volusiano]

Had my annual check-up performed last Friday and didn't even get a "xx out of 12" print-out, just a verbal statement that the battery read-out was fine and that the brakes and tires were looking great.

Wouldn't you want at least some kind of a printout that says that you had your annual battery test done, instead of just a verbal thumbs-up? In case you need to have a battery warranty claim in the future and they require you to provide documentation?

 

[TurboFroggy]

I took my leaf to my local dealer today to have the battery test performed.. I've had the car nearly a year so I figured it was time. They said they were busy and it would take a while so I got somebody to pick me up and drive me home. Well, about the time I got home, they called from the dealership and said they couldn't do the test. Apparently the battery must be nearly discharged before they can run the test. He said the battery meter shouldn't show more than 2 bars. So I have to go pick it up and bring it back some other day.

Odd huh?

Wow, I would NEVER take my Leaf to that dealer ever, they have no idea what they are doing or what they are talking about and would more than likely damage your Leaf. Call Nissan and report this, this is super bad and they should not be servicing anyone's Leaf, I wouldn't even trust them to wash it.

Oh and always remember the "Leaf Dealer Rule", don't belive ANYTHING a dealer tells you unless you see it, in writing/print, from Nissan. Anything not in writing/print from Nissan should be considered incorrect unless confimed with Nissan. There are a lot of dealers out there saying a lot of stupid stuff to new Leaf owners. "Oh you can't wash that, EVs are dry clean only and we have certified car dry-cleaning equipment." or "oh you you need brake fluid and headlight fluid flushing at 15,000 miles, that will be another $300", geez.... :roll:

 

[Ingineer]

The OP's dealer probably doesn't understand the procedures. Given a requirement that a customer arrive at the dealer with only two bars of charge is absurdly onerous, it's very hard to believe that Nissan doesn't have a procedure for testing batteries at all SOCs. My guess is we don't hear about this again.

This has been an illuminating discussion, but I think the obvious conclusion is that the required annual battery report is not the same as the CELL VOLTAGE LOSS INSPECTION. Here is what the Warranty Information booklet says:

You are required to perform annual EV Battery Usage Report at intervals of 12 months, 24 months, ...

See? They don't even call it an inspection. It sounds to me like it is just a log readout. That could be done at any charge level. Now maybe the OP specifically asked for an inspection or test, or maybe the service department misunderstood the warranty requirement, but the bottom line is that the annual report has no onerous requirement but probably won't tell you much. I expect we will hear about this "2 bar" inspection again, but only in the context of a battery which is acting up.

Ray

Ray, you are absolutely correct. The Cell Voltage Loss Inspection is only needed when there is a fault in the pack, as reported by a DTC set. This is NOT the same as the EV battery report! I can confirm this with direct personal knowledge.

The EV battery report is a special function in Consult III+ (the Dealer's computer tool) and can be done at ANY state of charge, as it's just reading data out of the Battery ECU.

-Phil

 

[Ingineer]

Oh, and the EV battery Report includes a print out function which is intended for the "customer". Please request this print out when you have your report run, as you are entitled to it. It summarizes the information collected with warnings for behavior that could reduce pack life.

-Phil

 

[vegastar]

In my opinion if a owner wants a cell voltage loss inspection, and pays for it, they must do it. If there is a DTC and the car is in warranty then it should be free. Even if there is no DTC and the owner is experiencing low range they should do it for free.

The SM says:

"The cell voltage loss inspection is performed to identify cells that the cell voltage is on the decrease (although
not judged as malfunction in DTC) and this may lead to a malfunction, if left stand."

and it says that the CVLI is part of the procedure in the "Reduction in driving range" symptom if no other problems are detected.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Ok then what does it cost?

 

[garygid]

I want the "Cell Voltage Loss Inspection" please.
I want to monitor the health of my Battery Pack.

This is similar to checking brake pads, fluid levels, CV boots, shocks, etc. to find approaching problems BEFORE they cause BIGGER problems.

If they refuse, get them to put the refusal in writing.

 

[Herm]

I want the "Cell Voltage Loss Inspection" please.
I want to monitor the health of my Battery Pack.

This may generate a lot of bad will if you detect a module with less capacity than the others and Nissan refuses to replace it. A slightly different module will affect your range at very low levels of battery charge but the car will perform well when its charged to a normal level.

Nissan may simply refuse to do this test unless an idiot light goes up... I can see that would save a lot of useless grief.

 

[tbleakne]

I want the "Cell Voltage Loss Inspection" please.
I want to monitor the health of my Battery Pack.

+1. It will be 5 months before I am ready for my battery test. By then you folks will have identified dealers that are willing to do the full CVLI and give you a printed report. Battery degradation is expected to be nonlinear, accelerating in the out years, so having an annual record will be useful, even if the initial loss is very small.

We obsessive types can then compare our CVLI reports to see if we can see any systematic correlation to how each of us is treating their battery .

I would be willing to drive 60+ miles for an appointment with a dealer technician who knows how to generate the CVLI report. I don't see why this report should require much labor, so why should it be expensive?

Oh, and the EV battery Report includes a print out function which is intended for the "customer". Please request this print out when you have your report run, as you are entitled to it. It summarizes the information collected with warnings for behavior that could reduce pack life.

-Phil

I recall seeing a prototype of this report somewhere, and it displayed zero useful data, just a bunch of "everything is fine" check marks and a repetition of the standard propaganda to not charge to 100% too often, avoid full charge on hot days, etc. The CVLI should have real numbers.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The annual pack test sounds like a nice way for Nissan to deny claims for capacity loss with finger-pointing data.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i see their point of not wanting to tell us too much details as i am sure they have preset parameters for module replacement and probably just do not want to get into a debate on when to change.

say the parameter is to change at value of 85 and the best measurement is 100 and you spend the time to take it in, wait a few hours and find one tests at 87. if i knew that, i would push for them to replace it since my other option is to drive another year knowing i probably have lost 10 miles of range due to one bad cell or waiting for the module to be discharged so low that it throws a code.

as a consumer, i am going to assume that 87 will be under 85 in a month or 2 at the most.

so, keeping us in the dark prevents that headache

**disclaimer** the numbers provided above are to illustrate a point and therefore were intentionally left without units, yada yada yada

 

[Herm]

The annual pack test sounds like a nice way for Nissan to deny claims for capacity loss with finger-pointing data.

They probably will deny them anyways.. you know evil corporations.