creep

[alk444]

today i drove a 2014 nissan leaf.

i was surprised that it creeped when in D or R

when i took my foot off the brake, even though i was not pressing the accelerator, the car moved.

but this an EV. the motor is not running. why should it creep?

the salesman said this was intentional to make it feel like a 'normal' car, but this is crazy. is there any way to stop this?

 

[Bob]

Yes, when in drive, it does creep forward on flat land. Conventional ICE cars do the same thing.

But as a feature, on a steep uphill, it will stop. It won't roll backwards.

There is a simulated neutral position. You can get into neutral by holding the shift/puck to the left, but not pushing forward or backwards. After one second, the car goes into neutral and will roll backwards or forwards on a hill, or sit in place on flat land. This isn't true neutral. It just turns off the electric motor. But as far as a driver can tell, it behaves just like neutral.

There is also a conventional park position, which engages a fixed block into the gear train so the car will not roll. You get to this mode by pushing the button P in the middle of the shift/puck.

To get from neutral to drive, you push the puck left and backwards. To get from park to drive, you must push on the brake and push the puck left and backwards. It's a very subtle difference.

Bob

 

[EVDRIVER]

There is nothing unusual about this.

 

[mctom987]

There is nothing unusual about this.

I could argue that point: 100% of model cars operate as expected. Only EVs are different, to try and match the "ICE Experience"

Personally, I think the two modes should operate as such:
D: "ICE"like experience, moderate regen, creep from stop
B: Max EV experience, max regen with no throttle, effectively neutral at a stop

is there any way to stop this?

You could put the car in neutral. I generally do this mostly out of habit from driving my manual. There's been more than a couple times I've crept forward inadvertently by not pressing the brake enough. Rather impossible to do on a manual transmission… (again pointing out that EVs should not creep forward)

 

[smkettner]

Yes that is how they all are since the start. The creep does not seem to turn off even with the brake applied. Compared to the RAV4-EV will sit for a split second after releasing the brake before it creeps.

 

[2k1Toaster]

From NHTSA:

Creep force alerts the driver to the vehicle's
direction of travel while the driver is in the process of releasing the
brake pedal and minimizes the chance that the driver will be surprised
due to shifting errors when he depresses the accelerator pedal. Creep
force is a characteristic inherent to ICE automatic transmission only
vehicles.

It is to prevent stupid people from being in the wrong gear. In a manual, no creep means no gear is engaged and if you say "go" the car won't. In an automatic if there is no creep, and you say "go" it will... However will it be forwards or backwards?

 

[EVDRIVER]

Yes that is how they all are since the start. The creep does not seem to turn off even with the brake applied. Compared to the RAV4-EV will sit for a split second after releasing the brake before it creeps.

"Seem" or does, this is very easy to read exactly.

 

[EVDRIVER]

There is nothing unusual about this.

I could argue that point: 100% of model cars operate as expected. Only EVs are different, to try and match the "ICE Experience"

Personally, I think the two modes should operate as such:
D: "ICE"like experience, moderate regen, creep from stop
B: Max EV experience, max regen with no throttle, effectively neutral at a stop

is there any way to stop this?

You could put the car in neutral. I generally do this mostly out of habit from driving my manual. There's been more than a couple times I've crept forward inadvertently by not pressing the brake enough. Rather impossible to do on a manual transmission… (again pointing out that EVs should not creep forward)

Do you push on the floor as out of habit, simulating a clutch as well? How does putting a button in neutral with your hand translate into a habit from not stalling a manual transmission at a stop by depressing the clutch? Creep is normal in a EV for the same reason it is normal in ICE cars. Not sure why this is an issue since the only time I let my foot off the brake is when I need to go forward. Sitting at a light in neutral should also mean a foot on the brake in an ICE.

 

[smkettner]

Yes that is how they all are since the start. The creep does not seem to turn off even with the brake applied. Compared to the RAV4-EV will sit for a split second after releasing the brake before it creeps.

"Seem" or does, this is very easy to read exactly.

It seems to me it does. How do you read it? My LEAF is gone so just to confirm for others.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Yes that is how they all are since the start. The creep does not seem to turn off even with the brake applied. Compared to the RAV4-EV will sit for a split second after releasing the brake before it creeps.

"Seem" or does, this is very easy to read exactly.

It seems to me it does. How do you read it? My LEAF is gone so just to confirm for others.

How does something seem to creep when you are stopped? At some point the brake switch contact is released. Once can read the KW consumption in D with the brake on and off.

 

[smkettner]

Partially apply the brakes and creep would continue. I would not trust the computer generated display for actual power consumption testing.

 

[johnrhansen]

There must be a brake pedal sensor so the car's electronics knows when the brake is on. It would be interesting to disconnect it from the brake and move it so that the car thinks the brake is applied when it actually isn't. I'd wager that if it was fully activated, brakes off and car in d it would not creep. An added feature would be if you want max regen going down a hill, you wouldn't have to feather the brake pedal.

 

[jstack6]

Tesla is the only Electric that does not have CREEP. Nissan should offer it as an option. I have also asked for variable charging instead of just 80 or 100 %. Tesla have variable charging. So it looks like the only way to get advanced software that can even be updated over the air is to buy a Tesla. The GEN III is coming in 2016 with 200+ mile range at $35K with Nationwide FREE Super Charging.

Full disclosure- I do own Tesla stock but we lease a 2013 LEAF

 

[Zythryn]

Tesla is the only Electric that does not have CREEP. Nissan should offer it as an option...

The i3 also has no creep.

 

[cwerdna]

Tesla. The GEN III is coming in 2016 with 200+ mile range at $35K with Nationwide FREE Super Charging.

As has been discussed in another thread, I doubt they'll hit their $35K. I suspect it'll be $35K after $7500 Federal tax credit, if even that. Or, it'll be $35K + some price adjustment for inflation/some other excuse after tax credit.

I also doubt that base model will include free Supercharger access, just in the same way the 60 kWh Model S doesn't either. They charge $2K for that.

 

[donald]

Tesla is the only Electric that does not have CREEP. Nissan should offer it as an option...

The i3 also has no creep.

...and the Renault Kangoo

There are pros and cons to both options, w/wo creep. Different manufacturers have come up with their own solutions/decisions. That's all there is to it. Leaf has creep. Buy it, or don't buy it, if that's and issue to you. Leaf will still have creep whether you own one or not.

 

[alk444]

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_EU/forum/forums/creep-or-not-creepsuggestion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
apparently Tesla has user selectable options controlling creep or not.
is there any after market mods for Leaf that would implement this?

 

[Nubo]

There must be a brake pedal sensor so the car's electronics knows when the brake is on. It would be interesting to disconnect it from the brake and move it so that the car thinks the brake is applied when it actually isn't. I'd wager that if it was fully activated, brakes off and car in d it would not creep. An added feature would be if you want max regen going down a hill, you wouldn't have to feather the brake pedal.

Not only does it know the brake is "on", it knows the amount of brake pressure. Regen is turned off at a certain brake pressure. That is why it may "seem" like it's always on, because you feel it tugging against the brakes before they are fully released.

 

[DanBaldwin]

The creep feature is there (in my opinion, of course) for 4 reasons;

1) Nissan has done everything possible to make the Leaf experience identical to driving a gas car, other than the fact that the Leaf is quiet, and you don't have to visit gas stations.

2) To alert the driver as to which direction the car will go when they press on the accelerator.

3) To force the driver to keep their foot on the brake while stopped. If you put the car into neutral and don't keep your foot on the brake, it could roll into another car.

4) To keep the car from rolling backwards when releasing the brake after stopping on an uphill.

If you REALLY don't want to have to put your foot on the brake while stopped, you can put the car in park (NOT neutral), or you can set the parking brake. The parking brake will automatically release when you press on the accelerator as long as you have your seat belt on, at least in my 2012 SL.

 

[mctom987]

For what it's worth, I really appreciate the creep in reverse. It's much easier (and safer) to control reverse speed with just the brake, especially when you're trying to parallel park with inches of room.

The creep feature is there (in my opinion, of course) for 4 reasons;

1) Nissan has done everything possible to make the Leaf experience identical to driving a gas car, other than the fact that the Leaf is quiet, and you don't have to visit gas stations.

2) To alert the driver as to which direction the car will go when they press on the accelerator.

3) To force the driver to keep their foot on the brake while stopped. If you put the car into neutral and don't keep your foot on the brake, it could roll into another car.

4) To keep the car from rolling backwards when releasing the brake after stopping on an uphill.

If you REALLY don't want to have to put your foot on the brake while stopped, you can put the car in park (NOT neutral), or you can set the parking brake. The parking brake will automatically release when you press on the accelerator as long as you have your seat belt on, at least in my 2012 SL.

1) I don't want a gas car, that's why I wanted the Leaf.
2) This is a perfectly reasonable feature. I still think it should be selectable/disabled if desired
3) I actually have more issues with that because of the creep…
4) Nope. The car is perfectly capable (and actually does it, Hill start assist) of doing that independent of creep.