Considering 2013 S - How important is Carwings?

[Chumuklasmom]

First, thank you to all the members here! I have been reading so many threads and learning lots of things about my potential journey into EV ownership. I think I have learned most of the things I need to, but I am struggling with one thing I don't think I completely have straight yet, and a search doesn't give me answers.

The car I am looking at is a 2013 S with the QC package - I don't know how to tell if it has the 6.6 charger, but it does have the three orange connectors under the hood. It's showing all 12 bars. It does have the reverse camera, too. I think the only thing I will miss by not getting the SV or SL is the cruise control, but since I am just driving less than 40 miles RT daily (with some side trips to the store, etc), all the driving will really be on back roads and not on interstate anyway. However, I don't think that it has the "Carwings" service/ability. From what I have read, that would limit my ability to remotely monitor the charging status and things like that. I am just not sure exactly what Carwings does and how big a deal going without it is. I think the remote heat/cool may be tied to that, but my car is garaged at home, so that would only be a problem when coming home from work. I am very interested in the LeafSpy App and I don't know if it will work without the Carwings - or maybe it's not related at all.

The company I am buying this from says they can get "more" of these (I am not crazy about the black color of the one I looked at - but I could live with it), so I am wondering if I would be better off asking them to find an SL or SV. Those would have the Cruise Control and the Carwings, but I think I might have to give up the backup camera, which I was excited about.

I did try to update my location, but just in case, I am in the Atlanta, GA area. We have a lot of the Leaf 2013s coming off leases here. I can see where they were delivered and the lease records, so I am confident that the one I am looking at was always right here in GA.

 

[jpadc]

The car I am looking at is a 2013 S with the QC package - I don't know how to tell if it has the 6.6 charger, but it does have the three orange connectors under the hood. It's showing all 12 bars. It does have the reverse camera, too.

If the 2013 S has the QC package, then it comes with the 6.6 kw onboard charger.

It will not have Carwings so you cannot not use a phone app to remotely start climate control or monitor charging. You can still set up a timer for charging and climate control, but not remotely with a phone app.

LeafSpy is unrelated to Carwings and works the same on all Leafs.

If you get a SL or SV they will also have a backup camera so you won't loose that

 

[pkulak]

If you get a SL or SV they will also have a backup camera so you won't loose that

Not at all! I'm still pissed that the upper-trim car I bought in 2013 has no backup camera. The SV and SL's need the premium package to get a backup camera.

 

[jpadc]

Not at all! I'm still pissed that the upper-trim car I bought in 2013 has no backup camera. The SV and SL's need the premium package to get a backup camera.

That's right, it wasn't until later that all SV and SL's included the backup camera without the premium package. Got to say, the LEAF really does have poor technology.

OP I did forget to mention the Bluetooth on the S is phone calls ONLY and does not do Bluetooth audio streaming. That has been a source of irritation to new owners who saw the Bluetooth Logo and ASSUMED steaming was included.

 

[GerryAZ]

All year SL models have backup cameras.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The SV and SL also have the heat pump heating/cooling system, which will help range in Winter, by using less power for heat in temps down to about 25F. (Below 20F or so the range becomes similar to the S.) The difference is really noticeable in typical Georgia Winter weather: the resistance heater in the S will use lots of power even at 40F, while the heat pump uses about the same small amount as the S uses for A/C. The heat pump also heats up faster. If you don't like the Superblack color of that S, and they can get what you want, ask for an SV, or for an SL if you like leather interiors. Just make sure it has 12 bars, and ideally, you can test the pack with leaf Spy before you buy.

 

[Chumuklasmom]

Thank you for the ideas and guidance! I had not considered the heat pump issue. I will be calling to talk to the dealer tomorrow and I will see if they can find me an SV or SL that does have the back-up camera.

Is there a way to look at the on-board charger and know if it's 3.3 or 6.6? The one in the car even had the paperwork but it didn't indicate that anywhere on it. I did see that it had a regular, three prong 120w plug - not the 240w. I thought that meant that it was just a 3.3, but it seems that I don't know what I am looking for.

I feel like I am getting a little more confident of what to look at and for. I have realized that the dealers know less than I do - and browsing online is useless because the ads never mention the things EV owners want/need to know.

Thanks again,

 

[LeftieBiker]

Thank you for the ideas and guidance! I had not considered the heat pump issue. I will be calling to talk to the dealer tomorrow and I will see if they can find me an SV or SL that does have the back-up camera.

Is there a way to look at the on-board charger and know if it's 3.3 or 6.6? The one in the car even had the paperwork but it didn't indicate that anywhere on it. I did see that it had a regular, three prong 120w plug - not the 240w. I thought that meant that it was just a 3.3, but it seems that I don't know what I am looking for.

I think that someone already mentioned that if it has the QC port, it has the faster charger. The actual charger is built into the car; the charging cable supplied with the car just provides the charger with house current and makes sure the connection is reasonable safe. I strongly suggest you look for an SV with the Premium Package. That includes a 4 camera system that is great for parking. In 2013 you could get both QC and Premium as options, but later years make you choose one. Unless you have QC stations in your area, I suggest Premium. If you have the stations, it won't hurt to look for a car with both options.

 

[BrockWI]

Also the 2013 S does not have cruise, my one regret. The heat pump would be nice, but I never thought I would miss cruise this much. I think it is because the Leaf doesn't give you the feedback a ice car does so its harder to maintain the speed by "listening" to the car, I always end up going faster than I want to or should without realizing it.

 

[LeftieBiker]

When I was looking to lease a Leaf I knew little about them. I would have leased a sharp Superblack S, but the lack of Cruise was a deal-breaker for me - happily.

 

[Valdemar]

Carwings will stop working at the end of this year as AT&T will pull the plug on the 2G wireless support which is what Carwings is communicating over. It is unlikely but possible Nissan will offer a 3G radio upgrade, but even if so it will cost you $$$ to get one installed. With that in mind I wouldn't make Carwings a serious consideration. 2G data is already spotty, I used to be able to communicate with the car at my workplace but not anymore.

 

[Jefe]

I strongly suggest you look for an SV with the Premium Package. That includes a 4 camera system that is great for parking.

+1 on finding a '13 with Premium package. The cameras are way more than backup cameras, you get full 360 view of your car which is awesome. You also get the Bose audio system, which is a point of debate as to whether that is actually an upgrade, but you should see a minimal price difference between a '13 with premium and one without.

 

[Jefe]

Carwings will stop working at the end of this year as AT&T will pull the plug on the 2G wireless support which is what Carwings is communicating over. It is unlikely but possible Nissan will offer a 3G radio upgrade, but even if so it will cost you $$$ to get one installed. With that in mind I wouldn't make Carwings a serious consideration. 2G data is already spotty, I used to be able to communicate with the car at my workplace but not anymore.

Why do you think it is unlikely? Nissan benefits from Carwings. They are selling '16s right now that rely on the same 2G support and have the warning on the window sticker that says it will cease to work. I know the Nissan phone support has no real insider knowledge, but all of the ones I have spoken too say that Nissan is going to figure something out.

 

[Valdemar]

Carwings will stop working at the end of this year as AT&T will pull the plug on the 2G wireless support which is what Carwings is communicating over. It is unlikely but possible Nissan will offer a 3G radio upgrade, but even if so it will cost you $$$ to get one installed. With that in mind I wouldn't make Carwings a serious consideration. 2G data is already spotty, I used to be able to communicate with the car at my workplace but not anymore.

Why do you think it is unlikely? Nissan benefits from Carwings. They are selling '16s right now that rely on the same 2G support and have the warning on the window sticker that says it will cease to work. I know the Nissan phone support has no real insider knowledge, but all of the ones I have spoken too say that Nissan is going to figure something out.

How does Nissan benefit from Carwings if this is a free service, still? They showed little desire to support existing customers so far, I wouldn't expect this to change. Even if they do offer a fix, how many people would pay several hundred dollars for this upgrade? Time will tell I guess.

 

[Jefe]

Carwings will stop working at the end of this year as AT&T will pull the plug on the 2G wireless support which is what Carwings is communicating over. It is unlikely but possible Nissan will offer a 3G radio upgrade, but even if so it will cost you $$$ to get one installed. With that in mind I wouldn't make Carwings a serious consideration. 2G data is already spotty, I used to be able to communicate with the car at my workplace but not anymore.

Why do you think it is unlikely? Nissan benefits from Carwings. They are selling '16s right now that rely on the same 2G support and have the warning on the window sticker that says it will cease to work. I know the Nissan phone support has no real insider knowledge, but all of the ones I have spoken too say that Nissan is going to figure something out.

How does Nissan benefit from Carwings if this is a free service, still? They showed little desire to support existing customers so far, I wouldn't expect this to change. Even if they do offer a fix, how many people would pay several hundred dollars for this upgrade? Time will tell I guess.

They benefit by getting ongoing telematics on usage of their cars. Tesla has the same thing, and presumably they can use that data for R&D, failure tracking, etc. That is why Carwings constantly asks you to consent to transmitting data back to Nissan, the implication is that Nissan is tracking your usage. Historically auto manufacturers had to rely on owners reporting issues through the dealer network before they were aware of any problems. With Carwings, Nissan can get that type of data in realtime. They aren't making money on subscriptions, true, but they definitely benefit from the data.

They have also indicated that they use the data to get a better understanding of the lifecycle of their batteries. And they have indicated they are open to partnering with insurance companies to provide the data to assist with safe driving discounts, etc.

 

[Stanton]

Carwings will stop working at the end of this year as AT&T will pull the plug on the 2G wireless support which is what Carwings is communicating over. It is unlikely but possible Nissan will offer a 3G radio upgrade, but even if so it will cost you $$$ to get one installed. With that in mind I wouldn't make Carwings a serious consideration. 2G data is already spotty, I used to be able to communicate with the car at my workplace but not anymore.

Why do you think it is unlikely? Nissan benefits from Carwings. They are selling '16s right now that rely on the same 2G support and have the warning on the window sticker that says it will cease to work. I know the Nissan phone support has no real insider knowledge, but all of the ones I have spoken too say that Nissan is going to figure something out.

It is very likely that Nissan will offer a modem upgrade (we still don't know if it will be 3G or 4G), we just don't know how they will offer it (with/without network service contract). We can debate whether CarWings is useful (I use it frequently and will pursue a modem upgrade even if I have to pay for it), but it is bad advice to tell folks it is useless and will be "abandoned" by Nissan.

 

[Valdemar]

The folks just need to be aware it might become useless or it'll cost to upgrade, that's all.

 

[Jefe]

I misspoke when I said that the '16s contain that warning. Apparently they do not, which might indicate that Nissan has already upgraded the modem for the '16 model.

Here is the warning message on a '15 Leaf window sticker:

And here is a '16 sticker, where you can see there is no such message:

 

[Jefe]

The folks just need to be aware it might become useless or it'll cost to upgrade, that's all.

I think that's totally fair. And the Nissan window sticker from '15 says this exact thing.

For me, I use it regularly and would be willing to spend money upgrading the modem (within reason).

 

[Stanton]

I expect someone (probably a MNL forum member) to "dig into" the telematics system for a 2016 and determine whether they have in fact upgraded the modem. Knowing the type of modem installed (3G/4G) will be a good indicator of what existing Leaf owners can expect later this year.