Evoforce
Well-known member
Looks like I'm in the game too!
Climate XChange Raffling off a new Tesla
- Thread starter Urs
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
I'd sell my wife's Accord and we'd keep it for the warranty period at least. She loves the S, but doesn't like the look of the X. They retain value nicely.
Pretty sure, since CXC is paying the taxes, that you wouldn't have to, wether you took the car or the cash.
palmermd said:
I posted that to explain where I got the info - I didn't just make it up. I'm glad to read that the used Teslas have a good warranty, and will consider buying one of those if I win, instead. That's assuming that buying one and getting the balance in cash is an option...
I don't think it works that way. I think they pay the taxes only if you take the car as your prize, but I could be mistaken.
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
No, you're right, deep in the legal details it lists the alternate cash prizes and states the taxes on the grand prize would not be covered.
Given the choice between "winning" $100k and having to pay about $33k in taxes, and getting a new $100k car tax-free, it's a hard choice. More work and risk to take the car, but more money in it as well.
The E-Bikes aren't as hard a choice. They seem overpriced for the specs. I'd take the cash there. The fact that I already have...five? Geez! E-bikes would also figure in...
The E-Bikes aren't as hard a choice. They seem overpriced for the specs. I'd take the cash there. The fact that I already have...five? Geez! E-bikes would also figure in...
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
If you took the car, and had enough tax burden for eligibility, could you also get the $7500 tax credit?
redLEAF
Well-known member
DNAinaGoodWay said:
That's something for your tax preparer to figure out ... I was lucky enough to win a luxury trip a few years back and I know it was counted as straight income; wasn't $100K though. There have been other winners of houses, etc. where you're getting a 'tangible' item that unless you have the money to pay for the extra income taxes (or the prize giver has indicated that they will pay for your tax liability; most don't) you may simply be better off selling it or even donating it to charity if don't have the extra cash to pay for the taxes. I would imagine as long as you keep and register the car in your name, you could take the $7,500 fed tax credit on that year's tax return but the IRS would want tax paid on the $100K 'prize' (would probably be between 25% and 33% depending on what your taxable income looks like; this table is for married filing jointly; most would put the rough estimate for most at around $25K):
Taxable Income; Tax Rate
$74,901 to $151,200; $10,312.50 plus 25% of the amount over $74,900
$151,201 to $230,450; $29,387.50 plus 28% of the amount over $151,200
$230,451 to $411,500; $51,577.50 plus 33% of the amount over $230,450
People often think that these things are always 'free' but that's simply not the case ...
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/08/jackpot.asp?layout=infini&v=2A
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
It indicates in the raffle rules that they pay the federal tax on the value of the grand prize, plus give you $5000 to cover state taxes. I think you're right, a winner could take the $7500 credit if they owe enough taxes, plus any state rebates, which would be $2500 here.
TomT
Well-known member
With my luck, I could be the only one entered and I would still somehow loose... I think I'm better off just holding on to the 250 bucks... 
Valdemar
Well-known member
TomT said:With my luck, I could be the only one entered and I would still somehow loose... I think I'm better off just holding on to the 250 bucks...
You won the battery bingo, didn't you? Although that may have exhausted your share of luck for years to come
Valdemar
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
Same here, electric bicycle is a foreign idea to me, if I ride my bikes I need no friggin battery, for all other needs I have a car. I'd take the Roomba though
Valdemar said:LeftieBiker said:
Same here, electric bicycle is a foreign idea to me, if I ride my bikes I need no friggin battery, for all other needs I have a car. I'd take the Roomba though
E-bikes are a blessing for those of us with serious health issues who still need to exercise, but the geared motors on mine have spoiled me. Unless you ride on only level ground and mild grades, hubmotor bikes are too weak on hills. That would especially apply to the 350 watt bike being offered as a prize. Their 500 watt (and $3500!) bike has better specs, but I'll bet my $300 EZIP bikes would beat it up a steep hill.
TomT
Well-known member
Yep! The previous thing that I had won was a regular size apple pie from Ralph's two decades ago!
By the way, it is interesting to note that my HX on the new battery is already down to 93%... I'm not that impressed by the Lizard so far...
By the way, it is interesting to note that my HX on the new battery is already down to 93%... I'm not that impressed by the Lizard so far...
Valdemar said:You won the battery bingo, didn't you? Although that may have exhausted your share of luck for years to comeTomT said:With my luck, I could be the only one entered and I would still somehow loose... I think I'm better off just holding on to the 250 bucks...
Pollux666
Active member
Wow! @DNAinaGoodWay tipped me off via teslamotorsclub.com (TMC) that the Climate XChange Carbon Pricing Awareness Raffle was being discussed here... wow, wow, wow! I am so thrilled to discover this thread!
Hi, folks... @Pollux666 here. @Pollux on TMC, @Pollux on teslamotors.com. I'm the Climate XChange raffle guy. I appreciate you people noticing it!
Hope I'm not stepping on any toes by registering for the forum so that I can offer a few of my own observations.
Re discussion about awarding prizes versus cash raffle -- as I've made clear on the raffle website and in a TMC thread and now here, I've killed off the cash raffle element of the raffle. I have come to thoroughly hate that part of the raffle, which I modeled on several other raffles I examined. Who the hell wants to win a cash raffle, anyway?!?! I don't know what I was thinking. Anyway, the Tesla and the 5 other prizes are now the ONLY prizes being awarded, no matter how many tickets we sell or how few. No matter whether the ticket numbers are consecutive, random, started at 500, are counting backward from 2000, or every third person gets the same ticket number (#14, of course).
@Urs - thanks for kicking off this thread!
@LeftieBiker, others -- yeah, that "ticket #14" thing at checkout time is confusing. You can bet that when the web designer and I decided to stick a sample ticket in the checkout process, we were way too busy patting ourselves on the back to stop to think whether anyone might find that ticket number confusing. So, yeah, it's a sample ticket, it has no meaning.
@LeftieBiker - "odds are better than 1 in 400". Yup, 332:1 if all 2000 tickets are sold versus 6 total prizes to award.
@DNAinaGoodWay, other -- CXC pays the fees and taxes on the Grand Prize awarded in the form of a Tesla vehicle. That's the $5K towards state vehicle taxes and $36,730 towards US withholding taxes. @redLeaf goes into a nice analysis of the tax implications, concluding that "people think it's free [winning a big raffle prize], but it's not". So, so, true.
By a quirk of the tax code, if an individual bears the responsibility for the taxes, current tax code requires a 25% withholding payment upfront. If the prize were $100K, that'd be $25K out of the winner's pocket, up front. But if the raffle sponsor picks up the tab, the requirement is a 33.33% withholding payment, which effectively includes paying taxes on the gift of paying the taxes.
CXC does not pay any of the taxes if the Grand Prize Winner chooses to take the cash alternative ($100K), so the winner in that case comes up with $25K to pay the withholding tax OR elects to have CXC deduct that payment from the cash prize, in which case CXC cuts a check to the IRS for $25K and a check to the winner for $75K. I think the winner will still be happy with that.
That said, if it isn't obvious, I'm a Tesla owner (2013 Model S P85+). I really, really want someone to win the goddamned car! And not the base model, either, something that has some options on it. And not a huge tax bill either. So: car @ $103K, doc & delivery fee @ $1200, high power wall charger @ $750, electrician to install HPWC @ $500, money to winner to use towards state vehicle taxes @ $5K, totaling $110,450 value to winner. US withholding calculated against that $110,450 yields a tax payment of $36,730 and a total layout by CXC of $147,180.
I went nuts last year when I entered a raffle and figured out that winning the Grand Prize meant incurring out-of-pocket withholding taxes. It outraged me that an ordinary person winning a raffle might have to pass up the actual prize and take the cash alternative simply to pay off Uncle Sam. I vowed that that would not be the case with this raffle. That said, CXC can't calculate everyone's particular tax situation nor guarantee to pay off any and all taxes out there. That's why everything is carefully defined as above. The goal/hope, though, is that the Winner will either net out positive or worst case small negative. Which brings me to....
@redLeaf, @LeftieBiker, maybe others -- YES, this thing is designed so that the winner is the First Owner of the vehicle. It does NOT pass through Climate XChange's hands first. Therefore, a winner in Central Massachusetts (or anywhere else in the USA) will be eligible for up to $7500 credit on US taxes. In MA and some other states, Winner may also be eligible for a rebate (in MA, that's another $2500) or a tax credit of some kind. In Louisiana, if memory serves, that's $8K! I'm thinking that federal and possible state tax help means that a Winner should ultimately net out positive -- i.e., walk away with the car and all the goodies, PLUS probably net a few extra dollars! -- or at worst just a little bit negative.
@TomT - "if it were a raffle of 1, I'd lose". :-( :-( Just so you know, even if the CXC raffle were to sell ZERO tickets, were I then to purchase one for myself, the Massachusetts AG would show me into the grey bar hotel for a stay of indeterminate duration. :-( :-( :-(
I appreciate that you people are paying attention to all this, and hope you're also noticing the carbon pricing aspect of all this and Climate XChange's focus on getting carbon pricing enacted in MA to show that it can be done and serve as an example.
Thanks,
Alan
Hi, folks... @Pollux666 here. @Pollux on TMC, @Pollux on teslamotors.com. I'm the Climate XChange raffle guy. I appreciate you people noticing it!
Hope I'm not stepping on any toes by registering for the forum so that I can offer a few of my own observations.
Re discussion about awarding prizes versus cash raffle -- as I've made clear on the raffle website and in a TMC thread and now here, I've killed off the cash raffle element of the raffle. I have come to thoroughly hate that part of the raffle, which I modeled on several other raffles I examined. Who the hell wants to win a cash raffle, anyway?!?! I don't know what I was thinking. Anyway, the Tesla and the 5 other prizes are now the ONLY prizes being awarded, no matter how many tickets we sell or how few. No matter whether the ticket numbers are consecutive, random, started at 500, are counting backward from 2000, or every third person gets the same ticket number (#14, of course).
@Urs - thanks for kicking off this thread!
@LeftieBiker, others -- yeah, that "ticket #14" thing at checkout time is confusing. You can bet that when the web designer and I decided to stick a sample ticket in the checkout process, we were way too busy patting ourselves on the back to stop to think whether anyone might find that ticket number confusing. So, yeah, it's a sample ticket, it has no meaning.
@LeftieBiker - "odds are better than 1 in 400". Yup, 332:1 if all 2000 tickets are sold versus 6 total prizes to award.
@DNAinaGoodWay, other -- CXC pays the fees and taxes on the Grand Prize awarded in the form of a Tesla vehicle. That's the $5K towards state vehicle taxes and $36,730 towards US withholding taxes. @redLeaf goes into a nice analysis of the tax implications, concluding that "people think it's free [winning a big raffle prize], but it's not". So, so, true.
By a quirk of the tax code, if an individual bears the responsibility for the taxes, current tax code requires a 25% withholding payment upfront. If the prize were $100K, that'd be $25K out of the winner's pocket, up front. But if the raffle sponsor picks up the tab, the requirement is a 33.33% withholding payment, which effectively includes paying taxes on the gift of paying the taxes.
CXC does not pay any of the taxes if the Grand Prize Winner chooses to take the cash alternative ($100K), so the winner in that case comes up with $25K to pay the withholding tax OR elects to have CXC deduct that payment from the cash prize, in which case CXC cuts a check to the IRS for $25K and a check to the winner for $75K. I think the winner will still be happy with that.
That said, if it isn't obvious, I'm a Tesla owner (2013 Model S P85+). I really, really want someone to win the goddamned car! And not the base model, either, something that has some options on it. And not a huge tax bill either. So: car @ $103K, doc & delivery fee @ $1200, high power wall charger @ $750, electrician to install HPWC @ $500, money to winner to use towards state vehicle taxes @ $5K, totaling $110,450 value to winner. US withholding calculated against that $110,450 yields a tax payment of $36,730 and a total layout by CXC of $147,180.
I went nuts last year when I entered a raffle and figured out that winning the Grand Prize meant incurring out-of-pocket withholding taxes. It outraged me that an ordinary person winning a raffle might have to pass up the actual prize and take the cash alternative simply to pay off Uncle Sam. I vowed that that would not be the case with this raffle. That said, CXC can't calculate everyone's particular tax situation nor guarantee to pay off any and all taxes out there. That's why everything is carefully defined as above. The goal/hope, though, is that the Winner will either net out positive or worst case small negative. Which brings me to....
@redLeaf, @LeftieBiker, maybe others -- YES, this thing is designed so that the winner is the First Owner of the vehicle. It does NOT pass through Climate XChange's hands first. Therefore, a winner in Central Massachusetts (or anywhere else in the USA) will be eligible for up to $7500 credit on US taxes. In MA and some other states, Winner may also be eligible for a rebate (in MA, that's another $2500) or a tax credit of some kind. In Louisiana, if memory serves, that's $8K! I'm thinking that federal and possible state tax help means that a Winner should ultimately net out positive -- i.e., walk away with the car and all the goodies, PLUS probably net a few extra dollars! -- or at worst just a little bit negative.
@TomT - "if it were a raffle of 1, I'd lose". :-( :-( Just so you know, even if the CXC raffle were to sell ZERO tickets, were I then to purchase one for myself, the Massachusetts AG would show me into the grey bar hotel for a stay of indeterminate duration. :-( :-( :-(
I appreciate that you people are paying attention to all this, and hope you're also noticing the carbon pricing aspect of all this and Climate XChange's focus on getting carbon pricing enacted in MA to show that it can be done and serve as an example.
Thanks,
Alan
I've posted info about the raffle in two other EV forums. While it would improve my odds to not mention it, I'd like to see Climate XChange sell the whole allotment. Thanks for starting this.
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
Very cool! I will do the same. While it's against our self interest on the surface, it's in all of own interests to try not to leave a scorched Earth for our descendants.
redLEAF
Well-known member
Would be great if someone from MNL forum won any of the prizes but would love to see more of these types of events in the future; seems we're going through another cycle of a bit of waning interest in EV's due to low gas prices once again but this has always been more than just that!
Happy to participate ... ticket #764
Still have some ties to NE; son works in MA, lives in NH and I myself went to college and met my wife in NH so perhaps the stars and planets have aligned ... Tesla (IMO) still makes the ultimate EV so couldn't ask for a better Grand Prize plus the runner ups aren't bad either! (we still have an old school lead acid battery push mower -- an Earthwise; still chugging along now that I found a good alternative supplier for the OEM batteries; would love an upgrade!)
Happy to participate ... ticket #764
Still have some ties to NE; son works in MA, lives in NH and I myself went to college and met my wife in NH so perhaps the stars and planets have aligned ... Tesla (IMO) still makes the ultimate EV so couldn't ask for a better Grand Prize plus the runner ups aren't bad either! (we still have an old school lead acid battery push mower -- an Earthwise; still chugging along now that I found a good alternative supplier for the OEM batteries; would love an upgrade!)
Pollux666
Active member
Thank you all for your help with postings and ticket purchases! Especially when postings don't help your immediate raffle odds. But yeah, the raffle is built to attract attention to carbon pricing, not just raise funds. All the dollars and time spent seeking attention for the raffle does easy double-duty to bring the phrase "carbon pricing" to the attention of many people who might not have heard it before.
Raffle goals, in descending priority order:
1 - Attention for carbon pricing
2 - Attention for MA Senate Bill S.1747, implementing carbon-fee-and-rebate in MA
https://malegislature.gov/Bills/189/Senate/S1747
3 - Attention for Climate XChange... not exactly a household name
4 - Raise funds for CXC mission -- not that this is unimportant!! We want all of the above. But I'm prepared to make decisions that put goal #1 ahead of goal #4.
I confess that a career built around systems software has left me completely unprepared for social media. :shock:
I'm still trying to figure out how to make use of Twitter. And FaceBook. And LinkedIn. And Instagram. And all these forums. Oh, and did I mention reddit? Someone tipped me off about a reddit thread on the raffle that I've got to track down. I'm grateful that people are doing this sort of stuff on behalf of Climate XChange and the raffle, as it's clear we need the help!
Thanks again,
Alan
P.S. Senator Mike Barrett speaking about carbon-fee-and-rebate in MA:
https://vimeo.com/143724931
And launching the raffle at the Climate XChange Carbon Pricing Awareness Event on Sep 26:
https://vimeo.com/weisswomanprodns/cxcraffle
But yeah, the raffle is built to attract attention to carbon pricing, not just raise funds. All the dollars and time spent seeking attention for the raffle does easy double-duty to bring the phrase "carbon pricing" to the attention of many people who might not have heard it before.Raffle goals, in descending priority order:
1 - Attention for carbon pricing
2 - Attention for MA Senate Bill S.1747, implementing carbon-fee-and-rebate in MA
https://malegislature.gov/Bills/189/Senate/S1747
3 - Attention for Climate XChange... not exactly a household name
4 - Raise funds for CXC mission -- not that this is unimportant!! We want all of the above. But I'm prepared to make decisions that put goal #1 ahead of goal #4.
I confess that a career built around systems software has left me completely unprepared for social media. :shock:
I'm still trying to figure out how to make use of Twitter. And FaceBook. And LinkedIn. And Instagram. And all these forums. Oh, and did I mention reddit? Someone tipped me off about a reddit thread on the raffle that I've got to track down. I'm grateful that people are doing this sort of stuff on behalf of Climate XChange and the raffle, as it's clear we need the help!
Thanks again,
Alan
P.S. Senator Mike Barrett speaking about carbon-fee-and-rebate in MA:
https://vimeo.com/143724931
And launching the raffle at the Climate XChange Carbon Pricing Awareness Event on Sep 26:
https://vimeo.com/weisswomanprodns/cxcraffle
RePo
Well-known member
I discovered the rafflle yesterday on gm-volt.com. The decision to buy became clear overnight. Today I bought ticket #801.
