Choice oTWO L2 Chargers! Which one is better for the price?

[Raza]

Hi
I saw the following two choices for Level 2 chargers at Home Depot. My commute is only less than 20 miles.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/THDProductCompare?errorURL=ProductAttributeErrorView&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&prodComp_0=203013921&prodComp_1=203001939&prodComp_2=202950820&keyword=electric+vehicle+charger" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So facts are
1. One is definitely more expensive by $250.
2. The expensive one has a 40A versus 16A.... what does that mean in terms charging time? or energy loss of electricity from the grid to the batteries?
3. I will be putting this outside - no garage. It rains in Maryland and snows as well. Is it better to have a 220V (as required by the expensive one) or have it hard wired (as required by the cheaper one)?

Thanks and I look forward to hearing about some suggestions.

Raza
Maryland, USA

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

40 amps only means you will be prepared for a car that will accept a higher charge in the future. your Leaf is NOT that car.

check with local electrical code because most will require hard wire if used outdoors.

sounds like cheaper is better here

 

[garygid]

Are these issues?
1. UL Listing
2. Effective, usable cord length
3. Handling coiled vs straight cord
4. If you are buying, might as well get 240v (also called 220v)
5. difficulty getting new circuit/wiring in place
6. Placing a bit of weather/sun shelter for the EVSE
7. Using the included 120v, plugged in inside, with e-hose (e-fuel cord) going outside.
8. the cord reaching in your (or visitor) cars parked in various ways.

L2 (240v, 16A max in the LEAF) is faster than L1 (120v, 12A max in the LEAF). Even if both are limited to 12A (amps), the 240v is twice as fast.

 

[Randy]

Here's my take...

I would eliminate the Leviton unit because it is $900 and only charges at 120v 12A. That will only add 5 miles of range per hour of charging to your LEAF. Fine perhaps for overnight charging, but not adequate on the weekend when you're trying to recharge after one trip and preparing for the next. The cordset included with your car would provide the same benefit, so why spend the $900 on that.

As far as the difference between the Legrand and the GE units, the biggest question is about your EV future. The GE unit will be able to charge future cars at 6.6kW. The 2011/2012 LEAF won't support that, but future models (and other cars) will. The Legrand unit will only support the LEAF's current 3.3kW charging, so it is not future proof. If you don't care about the future, score one for Legrand.

No matter which of the units you purchase, knowing that it is going to be installed outside, I would try to build some sort of a small awning or shade over the unit to keep some of the elements off. That will help extend the life.

And, finally, at those prices you're considering, don't forget about Clipper Creek products. Their LCS-25 is $995 and comes with a 20 foot cord to the J1772 connector. Their stuff is very high quality and they've been around for a long time.

http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-6/Level-2-EVSE%2C-Level/Detail.bok" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Randy

 

[garygid]

Apparently the CC EVSE is only "half" future-proof, supporting only 25-amp charging instead of a max of 32 amps?

But, maybe it is really only 24 amps to require only a 30-amp breaker, rather than the 40-amp breaker needed for a 32-amp (output) EVSE?

Or, does it output only 20 amps, using a 25-amp breaker (and circuit)?

 

[SteveInSeattle]

If you plan on keeping your Leaf for 10 years then any concern about "future" use is moot since there are already inductive solutions being explored. In 2022 we will just drive our Nissan XR700s over a charging mat and the charging will be automatic and wireless.

 

[Raza]

40 amps only means you will be prepared for a car that will accept a higher charge in the future. your Leaf is NOT that car.

check with local electrical code because most will require hard wire if used outdoors.

sounds like cheaper is better here

Thank you so much for your quick reply. So the cheaper will do fine? If I get the 40 amps, the charging time would be the same as the 16 amps, I take it?

Raza

 

[cwerdna]

OP, what you're looking at aren't chargers. They're EVSEs. The charger is inside your car.

 

[Raza]

Here's my take...

I would eliminate the Leviton unit because it is $900 and only charges at 120v 12A. That will only add 5 miles of range per hour of charging to your LEAF. Fine perhaps for overnight charging, but not adequate on the weekend when you're trying to recharge after one trip and preparing for the next. The cordset included with your car would provide the same benefit, so why spend the $900 on that.

As far as the difference between the Legrand and the GE units, the biggest question is about your EV future. The GE unit will be able to charge future cars at 6.6kW. The 2011/2012 LEAF won't support that, but future models (and other cars) will. The Legrand unit will only support the LEAF's current 3.3kW charging, so it is not future proof. If you don't care about the future, score one for Legrand.

No matter which of the units you purchase, knowing that it is going to be installed outside, I would try to build some sort of a small awning or shade over the unit to keep some of the elements off. That will help extend the life.

And, finally, at those prices you're considering, don't forget about Clipper Creek products. Their LCS-25 is $995 and comes with a 20 foot cord to the J1772 connector. Their stuff is very high quality and they've been around for a long time.

http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-6/Level-2-EVSE%2C-Level/Detail.bok" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Randy

Hi Randy
Yes, I am definitely eliminating the Levitron. I bought the Leaf and my plan is to keep the Leaf for at least 8 years or so.... So what happens by then, I am just so excited....
Thank you for letting me know what Leaf supports. I did not know that GE works at 6.6 kW and the Legrand at half the that. To come to think of it, this morning when I was charging the Leaf at a public free charger, I did note the display saying it was charging at 3875 Watts. So I will go with Legrand if the GE is not going to help me with charging the Leaf faster. I will look at Clipper Creek products.

I will definitely consider some kind of shade for the unit. I did not think of that. An electrician suggested by Home Depot is going to be over for free estimate on friday so I will get more information of ideal location!

Thanks!

Raza

 

[Raza]

OP, what you're looking at aren't chargers. They're EVSEs. The charger is inside your car.

Yes, my apologies. I just said electric vehicle chargers as they are listed as such by Home Depot and Lowes

Raza

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

40 amps only means you will be prepared for a car that will accept a higher charge in the future. your Leaf is NOT that car.

check with local electrical code because most will require hard wire if used outdoors.

sounds like cheaper is better here

Thank you so much for your quick reply. So the cheaper will do fine? If I get the 40 amps, the charging time would be the same as the 16 amps, I take it?

Raza

yes. it does not matter the capacity of the EVSE. only the capacity of the Leaf's onboard charger and its max'd out at 16 amps

 

[Raza]

Are these issues?
1. UL Listing
2. Effective, usable cord length
3. Handling coiled vs straight cord
4. If you are buying, might as well get 240v (also called 220v)
5. difficulty getting new circuit/wiring in place
6. Placing a bit of weather/sun shelter for the EVSE
7. Using the included 120v, plugged in inside, with e-hose (e-fuel cord) going outside.
8. the cord reaching in your (or visitor) cars parked in various ways.

L2 (240v, 16A max in the LEAF) is faster than L1 (120v, 12A max in the LEAF). Even if both are limited to 12A (amps), the 240v is twice as fast.

Thank you for your reply. I was definitely looking at L2 (220v / 240v). There are two options. I will know about wiring issues on Friday when the electrician comes over.
Since both of L2 EVSE are listed for outdoors, I did not think about shade... but I will consider it.
Both of L2 EVSE have enough cords as we only have two cars and of course, Leaf parks close by to the home It is spolied!

Raza

 

[Raza]

40 amps only means you will be prepared for a car that will accept a higher charge in the future. your Leaf is NOT that car.

check with local electrical code because most will require hard wire if used outdoors.

sounds like cheaper is better here

Thank you so much for your quick reply. So the cheaper will do fine? If I get the 40 amps, the charging time would be the same as the 16 amps, I take it?

Raza

yes. it does not matter the capacity of the EVSE. only the capacity of the Leaf's onboard charger and its max'd out at 16 amps

Thank you!! That is exaclty what I wanted to know. Much appreciated! Love this forum!!

Raza

 

[smkettner]

Hi
I saw the following two choices for Level 2 chargers at Home Depot. My commute is only less than 20 miles.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/THDProductCompare?errorURL=ProductAttributeErrorView&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&prodComp_0=203013921&prodComp_1=203001939&prodComp_2=202950820&keyword=electric+vehicle+charger" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So facts are
1. One is definitely more expensive by $250.
2. The expensive one has a 40A versus 16A.... what does that mean in terms charging time? or energy loss of electricity from the grid to the batteries?
3. I will be putting this outside - no garage. It rains in Maryland and snows as well. Is it better to have a 220V (as required by the expensive one) or have it hard wired (as required by the cheaper one)?

Thanks and I look forward to hearing about some suggestions.

Raza
Maryland, USA

The GE Wattstation is outdoor rated same as Leviton and Legrand. Schneider is indoor only so forget that.

Current Leaf only charges at 16 amps max. NEC requires 20 amp circuit for a continuous load of 16 amps over 3 hours. Leviton and Legrand are 16a max and require 20a circuit. GE Wattstation can charge at 30 amps and code requires 40 amp circuit but will not charge current Leaf any faster. Install of a 20a circuit is only a couple dollars less money than 40 amp. (#12 wire vs #8 wire)

All need to be hardwired outdoors.

I used the Nissan 120v trickle charge cord for 5 months until I had a Schneider installed in my garage. I averaged 50 miles per day during this time. So no need to panic to get something done before Leaf is in the driveway. Although I do recommend a 240v evse.

Here is a thread with a summary of options:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5842

 

[smkettner]

That Leviton (level 1) you have in the compare link is the wrong thing to look at. Try these instead:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...1=203001939&prodComp_2=202950823&N=5yc1vZbzjt

 

[tps]

Here's my take...
I would eliminate the Leviton unit because it is $900 and only charges at 120v 12A.

Yes, I am definitely eliminating the Levitron.

You might want to look at the Leviton Evr-Green 160, which is what I have. It charges at 16A 240V. It's $999 from Amazon, but unlike just about all other EVSEs, it is built in a study metal box, not a plastic enclosure. It requires a 20A/240V circuit with a 6-20R socket. I found that no permit or inspection was required. The electrician installed the socket and it was a simple job to mount the Leviton 160 next to the socket. If I move (I rent) it will be a 5 minute job to unmount the Leviton and take it with me. BTW -- the electrician charged less than $200 to install the breaker, run the wire and install the outlet. I used the Leviton mounting kit, which you may or may not need, which was $80 from Amazon, so the installed cost of my EVSE was less than $1300. Had I done the electrical work myself and skippend the mounting kit, it would have been less than $1100. Part of my reason for using the Leviton is that I had a 60A subpanel in the detached garage, which would have required an upgrade to support a 40A circuit, however 20A was OK. Given that at 16A I can recharge from my normal daily usage in 3-4hr, I don't see why I'd ever need more capacity for overnight charging, even with a future EV capable of a higher charging rate.

For outdoor use, you have to get the hardwire version of the Leviton, which has no plug and pigtail, but does have the key which lets you open the unit. I've taken a somewhat different approach, as my unit is mounted indoor but I'll be charging outdoor. I got an RV electrical hatch and installed it in garage wall next to the overhead door. The hatch had flexible plastic teeth on the back, presumably to keep the electrical plug from falling out the back end. I cut those teeth off so the J1772 connector fits through when large cover is open. There's a small slot with a sliding cover for the cord, so you can have the large cover closed with the cord coming out the slot.

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-EVB22-3PM-Evr-Green-Charging-Station/dp/B004G6ZSZG/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1326654041&sr=1-2-catcorr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-EVK02-M-Evr-Green-Installation-Charging/dp/B004G6YGBI/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.amazon.com/JR-Products-541-2--Deluxe-Electric/dp/B000BGJWA2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326653951&sr=8-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[planet4ever]

Given that at 16A I can recharge from my normal daily usage in 3-4hr, I don't see why I'd ever need more capacity for overnight charging, even with a future EV capable of a higher charging rate.

This is an important point, worth emphasizing. For most people, 16A is plenty at home; even 12A (which I have) is plenty. There are a few people who need or want the capability to recharge at home during the day, but for most of us the 6.6 kW charger would only be important when charging away from home. A 16A home charging station will definitely not be obsolete even if you later upgrade to a vehicle that supports faster charging. The one upgrade that might make it obsolete for a few people would be a vehicle with a 200 mile or longer range. Even that would only affect drivers who spend many hours on the road for two or more days in succession while spending the night at home between the trips.

Ray

 

[vin944]

Hey what about Phil? I was thinking about sending mine in for retrofit. I think this is a great alternative! Any negatives?

http://evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[spike09]

Hi
I saw the following two choices for Level 2 chargers at Home Depot. My commute is only less than 20 miles.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/THDProductCompare?errorURL=ProductAttributeErrorView&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&prodComp_0=203013921&prodComp_1=203001939&prodComp_2=202950820&keyword=electric+vehicle+charger" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So facts are
1. One is definitely more expensive by $250.
2. The expensive one has a 40A versus 16A.... what does that mean in terms charging time? or energy loss of electricity from the grid to the batteries?
3. I will be putting this outside - no garage. It rains in Maryland and snows as well. Is it better to have a 220V (as required by the expensive one) or have it hard wired (as required by the cheaper one)?

Thanks and I look forward to hearing about some suggestions.


Raza
Maryland, USA

I highly recommend the AeroViornment EVSE. It is extremely reliabe, very small, weatherproof and comes with a 15 or 25 foot cable. The cost is $995 and they ship it straight to your house.

 

[fooljoe]

I'm guessing you've already made your decision, but if not - or for anyone else following this thread - I'd suggest skipping the Home Depot options and going with evseupgrade or, if you don't mind a little DIY, open-evse. Whatever you do, my advice is to spend as little as possible, as these things are all way overpriced at this point. "Future-proofing" is overrated, and if you want an outdoor installation, you can put any EVSE inside a separate weatherproof box. So don't let either of those be a dealbreaker for an otherwise good option that will save you a few hundred bucks.

Also, are you sure you don't qualify for a free EVSE from the EV project or some other program? Here's another one I just found googling "free evse" - not sure how legit it is. Speaking of legitimacy, avoid EV-Charge America at all costs.