Chicagoland area

[redLEAF]

I wonder what is going on behind doors at the IL EPA's rebate office. This is an established program that has been handing out money to a certain "clientele" for years. I assume fuel subsidies have been the main budget item, while EV rebates were probably only a minor issue (see our low EL plate numbers). Now suddenly these EV applications are coming in in large numbers and with large demands in an environment of, at best, constant funding. So something will have to give.

Yes, but as you said our numbers are actually quite low (even assuming that the 'earliest' NEW EV to request a rebate was say plate #260 -- it was at 252 about a year ago; we're only up to #307 so perhaps maybe 55 or 60 cars including those w/o the 'EL' plates; even for a small office that's not many to process)

 

[lukati]

I wonder what is going on behind doors at the IL EPA's rebate office. This is an established program that has been handing out money to a certain "clientele" for years. I assume fuel subsidies have been the main budget item, while EV rebates were probably only a minor issue (see our low EL plate numbers). Now suddenly these EV applications are coming in in large numbers and with large demands in an environment of, at best, constant funding. So something will have to give.

Yes, but as you said our numbers are actually quite low (even assuming that the 'earliest' NEW EV to request a rebate was say plate #260 -- it was at 252 about a year ago; we're only up to #307 so perhaps maybe 55 or 60 cars including those w/o the 'EL' plates; even for a small office that's not many to process)

I believe the program's annual funding is on the order of $1M, give or take. For comparison, 60 EV rebates cost more than $200K. So a budget item that used to cost less than say $50K per year suddenly needs $200K per half-year with increasing tendency in coming years. Previous recipients will not be pleased about this new competition that threatens "their" revenue stream.

 

[dutchinchicago]

I wonder what is going on behind doors at the IL EPA's rebate office. This is an established program that has been handing out money to a certain "clientele" for years. I assume fuel subsidies have been the main budget item, while EV rebates were probably only a minor issue (see our low EL plate numbers). Now suddenly these EV applications are coming in in large numbers and with large demands in an environment of, at best, constant funding. So something will have to give.

Yes, but as you said our numbers are actually quite low (even assuming that the 'earliest' NEW EV to request a rebate was say plate #260 -- it was at 252 about a year ago; we're only up to #307 so perhaps maybe 55 or 60 cars including those w/o the 'EL' plates; even for a small office that's not many to process)

I believe the program's annual funding is on the order of $1M, give or take. For comparison, 60 EV rebates cost more than $200K. So a budget item that used to cost less than say $50K per year suddenly needs $200K per half-year with increasing tendency in coming years. Previous recipients will not be pleased about this new competition that threatens "their" revenue stream.

I see your point. All you have to do is to pay $41000 for a Leaf and then you are getting a revenue of $3800 of the state so you made a quick -$37200 in profit. Hey what is that minus doing there? You must have tricked me.

What revenue stream are you talking about?

 

[scottf200]

http://www.cspnet.com/news/fuels/articles/states-mull-electric-vehicle-incentives-impediments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

States Mull Electric-Vehicle Incentives, Impediments
Ill. fee hike would fund rebates; Kansas bill would impose EV "gas" tax
CSP Daily News | January 27, 2012

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. -- A new report designed to spark electric vehicle (EV) usage in Illinois calls for a $1 boost in the state license plate fee to help bankroll rebates and grants for alternative fuel vehicles, reported the Bloomington Pantagraph.

The additional fee, which would hike the state's standard license plate renewal cost to $100 annually, is among a lengthy list of recommendations contained in a report forwarded to members of the Illinois General Assembly and Governor Pat Quinn by the state's Electric Vehicle Advisory Council.

The panel's recommendations are designed to get 100,000 EVs on Illinois roads by 2015.
<snip>

 

[redLEAF]

So $400M in IL EPA rebates? (100,000 X $4,000) ... don't think a $1 increase would cover that as IL doesn't have 400 million licensed vehicles the last I checked ... 2009 shows 9,891,000 total in 2009 but I suppose if you gave it 3 years you could get close to $30M but that's a long way from $400M; of course no mention of what the EV rebate for IL would end up being, would think that they couldn't afford to be that 'generous' in this scenario

http://www.census.gov/compendia/sta...egistrations_alternative_fueled_vehicles.html

And although it's only a buck, what kind of additional resentment towards EV's would that bring? I took a consultant to lunch yesterday in my LEAF and he was asking a bit about it as he wasn't familiar, he guessed at $40K selling price (not too far off) but was more impressed with the incentives offered. EV's are still pretty much an unknown entity out here; it's not just a misconception it's simply not even thought of -- if we get the higher gas prices this summer I see that changing. BTW, the LEAF definitely likes the more mild temps, my battery temp is now at 5 bars and used much less than I normally would on the trip in (of course no heat, etc.). Today we might hit 60 so the ride home should be like spring with increased range ... nice!

 

[lukati]

I called the IL EPA this morning. It turns out that we are in the same cycle as the fuel rebates and that deadline is today. From today it will take 2-3 months for the money to be allocated, i.e. tax day plus minus two weeks. Apparently, they were not flooded by EV applications and have the money to pay out the rebates for this cycle. So we just need a little patience.

 

[redLEAF]

I called the IL EPA this morning. It turns out that we are in the same cycle as the fuel rebates and that deadline is today. From today it will take 2-3 months for the money to be allocated, i.e. tax day plus minus two weeks. Apparently, they were not flooded by EV applications and have the money to pay out the rebates for this cycle. So we just need a little patience.

About what I expected -- perhaps 50 to 75 I would think; too bad they don't break out LEAF sales numbers by state and we would know for sure; of course a few could have leased theirs but I'd doubt it with this large an incentive that would make them ineligible -- 'dutch' may get two !! (LEAF & Volt)

 

[dutchinchicago]

I called the IL EPA this morning. It turns out that we are in the same cycle as the fuel rebates and that deadline is today. From today it will take 2-3 months for the money to be allocated, i.e. tax day plus minus two weeks. Apparently, they were not flooded by EV applications and have the money to pay out the rebates for this cycle. So we just need a little patience.

About what I expected -- perhaps 50 to 75 I would think; too bad they don't break out LEAF sales numbers by state and we would know for sure; of course a few could have leased theirs but I'd doubt it with this large an incentive that would make them ineligible -- 'dutch' may get two !! (LEAF & Volt)

I was too slow. Have not filed my Volt papers yet. I thought that I missed the dec 31 deadline. Did not realize that it was Jan 31.

 

[redLEAF]

I called the IL EPA this morning. It turns out that we are in the same cycle as the fuel rebates and that deadline is today. From today it will take 2-3 months for the money to be allocated, i.e. tax day plus minus two weeks. Apparently, they were not flooded by EV applications and have the money to pay out the rebates for this cycle. So we just need a little patience.

About what I expected -- perhaps 50 to 75 I would think; too bad they don't break out LEAF sales numbers by state and we would know for sure; of course a few could have leased theirs but I'd doubt it with this large an incentive that would make them ineligible -- 'dutch' may get two !! (LEAF & Volt)

I was too slow. Have not filed my Volt papers yet. I thought that I missed the dec 31 deadline. Did not realize that it was Jan 31.

Actually I overlooked the Volt as it's also eligible (was thinking more like in 2012) but don't think that they sold that many in IL during 2011 anyway

 

[lukati]

I called the IL EPA this morning. It turns out that we are in the same cycle as the fuel rebates and that deadline is today. From today it will take 2-3 months for the money to be allocated, i.e. tax day plus minus two weeks. Apparently, they were not flooded by EV applications and have the money to pay out the rebates for this cycle. So we just need a little patience.

About what I expected -- perhaps 50 to 75 I would think; too bad they don't break out LEAF sales numbers by state and we would know for sure; of course a few could have leased theirs but I'd doubt it with this large an incentive that would make them ineligible -- 'dutch' may get two !! (LEAF & Volt)

I was too slow. Have not filed my Volt papers yet. I thought that I missed the dec 31 deadline. Did not realize that it was Jan 31.

The deadline was in December. The current deadline is only for fuel rebates.

 

[Bzzzzz]

Dutch, what kind of EV range are you getting with your Volt?

 

[scottf200]

Dutch, what kind of EV range are you getting with your Volt?

My low in the 18F days was 26 EV miles. Today would have been close to 40 EV miles if I drove that far. FWIW, tomorrow my A trip odometer hits 10,000 miles (currently 9988.7) and and my gas is 19.9. i.e. 500 MPG"used".

 

[dutchinchicago]

Dutch, what kind of EV range are you getting with your Volt?

My low in the 18F days was 26 EV miles. Today would have been close to 40 EV miles if I drove that far. FWIW, tomorrow my A trip odometer hits 10,000 miles (currently 9988.7) and and my gas is 19.9. i.e. 500 MPG"used".

So far I have seen between 26 and 29 miles range. I have not driven it to the point yet where the generator has to kick in. The range seems to drop accurately with the distance driven so if I start with 29 and drive 10 miles it will show 19 miles range left. I drive with the heating on but in eco (called normal mode) most of the time.

I am hoping to make some longer trips soon.

I do miss carwings. There is very little information available on the volt website. Chevrolet is not able to reset lifetime mileage (only indication of historical performance) so I am stuck with the 1900 miles driven by the previous owner (who did a lot of gas miles). There are a couple of coming soon buttons that might give me a breakdown of driving performance but those are not there yet.

On a different note. I bought the GreenCharge iphone app yesterday. The one nice thing it does is to constantly poll the car so you can see an almost instance charge state rather than the leaf (and volt) apps where it can take up to a minute to update. It is probably not worth the $9.99 but I was hoping for something that gives better historical performance. The best I found so far is https://www.voltstats.net/Stats/Details/503.

 

[redLEAF]

Dutch, what kind of EV range are you getting with your Volt?

My low in the 18F days was 26 EV miles. Today would have been close to 40 EV miles if I drove that far. FWIW, tomorrow my A trip odometer hits 10,000 miles (currently 9988.7) and and my gas is 19.9. i.e. 500 MPG"used".

... so I am stuck with the 1900 miles driven by the previous owner (who did a lot of gas miles). There are a couple of coming soon buttons that might give me a breakdown of driving performance but those are not there yet.

On a different note. I bought the GreenCharge iphone app yesterday. The one nice thing it does is to constantly poll the car so you can see an almost instance charge state rather than the leaf (and volt) apps where it can take up to a minute to update. It is probably not worth the $9.99 but I was hoping for something that gives better historical performance. The best I found so far is https://www.voltstats.net/Stats/Details/503.

So we can assume that you won't get the EV rebates or wasn't it registered (just a demo)?

 

[dutchinchicago]

http://www.plugincars.com/2012-toyota-prius-plug-hybrid-fuel-economy-rating-95-mpge-111849.html

I wonder if I should trade in my Volt for a Prius plug in?

 

[scottf200]

http://www.plugincars.com/2012-toyota-prius-plug-hybrid-fuel-economy-rating-95-mpge-111849.html
I wonder if I should trade in my Volt for a Prius plug in?

Big diff aside from EV range from the Volt is the PIP kicks in the ICE at 62 MPH (100 KPH) or under hard acceleration. In other words, the Volt is likely "closer" to giving you more EV miles ... assuming that is a goal since you owned a LEAF.

 

[GRA]

http://www.plugincars.com/2012-toyota-prius-plug-hybrid-fuel-economy-rating-95-mpge-111849.html
I wonder if I should trade in my Volt for a Prius plug in?

Big diff aside from EV range from the Volt is the PIP kicks in the ICE at 62 MPH (100 KPH) or under hard acceleration. In other words, the Volt is likely "closer" to giving you more EV miles ... assuming that is a goal since you owned a LEAF.

From an efficiency/lowest cost point of view, I think Chevy set the max. speed for EV mode a bit high at 70 mph. I assume the planetary gear set could be modified to change the ratio slightly and optimize things for the ICE at a lower speed. Some people can certainly use it for their commutes, but my feeling is if you're cruising at 100 km/h (62mph) or faster, traffic is flowing freely and the gas engine is more efficient in that range. I think the Pip or maybe the Accord PHEV (which works more like the Volt than the PiP does) cut-off at 62 makes more sense.

 

[Bzzzzz]

Dutch, what kind of EV range are you getting with your Volt?

My low in the 18F days was 26 EV miles. Today would have been close to 40 EV miles if I drove that far. FWIW, tomorrow my A trip odometer hits 10,000 miles (currently 9988.7) and and my gas is 19.9. i.e. 500 MPG"used".

So far I have seen between 26 and 29 miles range. I have not driven it to the point yet where the generator has to kick in. The range seems to drop accurately with the distance driven so if I start with 29 and drive 10 miles it will show 19 miles range left. I drive with the heating on but in eco (called normal mode) most of the time.

I am hoping to make some longer trips soon.

I do miss carwings. There is very little information available on the volt website. Chevrolet is not able to reset lifetime mileage (only indication of historical performance) so I am stuck with the 1900 miles driven by the previous owner (who did a lot of gas miles). There are a couple of coming soon buttons that might give me a breakdown of driving performance but those are not there yet.

On a different note. I bought the GreenCharge iphone app yesterday. The one nice thing it does is to constantly poll the car so you can see an almost instance charge state rather than the leaf (and volt) apps where it can take up to a minute to update. It is probably not worth the $9.99 but I was hoping for something that gives better historical performance. The best I found so far is https://www.voltstats.net/Stats/Details/503.

I was thinking about getting the GreenCharge app as well. Can it incorporate the real time electricity costs from ComEd, or does it just use the standard average rate? The realtime metering from ComEd is great. Take a look at the prices for electricity between midnight and 6am today - the usual hours I charge my Leaf.

http://www.thewattspot.com

 

[lukati]

Saw my first wild LEAF today charging at a Walgreens. Black SL with regular (non-EL) IL plates.

 

[redLEAF]

Saw my first wild LEAF today charging at a Walgreens. Black SL with regular (non-EL) IL plates.

Still have yet to see another LEAF ... BTW I saw on another thread that 'EL' reported-on-the-forum plates are up to 313 (tech01's) so they are getting out there; unless it's a vanity and/or Environmental, etc. I wouldn't see why anyone wouldn't go with an 'EL' plate -- $198 versus $35 for every 2 years as well as a low number series (although rather plain) was enough of an incentive for me but perhaps the dealer's are not up to speed? Did you notice what Nissan dealer it was?