Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

[palmermd]

A few more technical details on the Bolt EV:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/car...hings-to-know-about-chevrolets-30000-bolt-ev/

The Cd is 0.312 and the frontal area is 25.8 sq ft, so the CdA is 8.05 sq ft.

Those are both very close to the Nissan Leaf numbers at 0.32 and 24.5 according to Car and Driver ( https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/the-slipperiest-car-on-the-road.pdf )

With the numbers so close you can estimate range by using the Leafs range chart http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295 and just expanding the 21kWh usable to the usable capacity of the Bolt. Since we don't have that information we don't know anything for sure, but could be as much as 3x the range of a Leaf.

 

[edatoakrun]

A few more technical details on the Bolt EV:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/car...hings-to-know-about-chevrolets-30000-bolt-ev/

The Cd is 0.312 and the frontal area is 25.8 sq ft, so the CdA is 8.05 sq ft.

Those are both very close to the Nissan Leaf numbers at 0.32 and 24.5 according to Car and Driver ( https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/the-slipperiest-car-on-the-road.pdf )

With the numbers so close you can estimate range by using the Leafs range chart...

The range chart is not an accurate representation of LEAF efficiency and range.

I suggest you use the AVTA test results instead, available for 2011, 2012, and 2013 MY LEAFs:

http://avt.inel.gov/fsev.shtml

As I did when I posted previously, p. 55, this thread:

Add less aerodynamic, to heavier and more expensive, to the progress GM has made in the Bolt, compared to the LEAF of ~five years ago:

According to C&D, Bolt's claimed drag area is ~8.05 SFT, considerably worse than the tested results for a 2012 LEAF

The Bolt’s claimed 0.312 aerodynamic-drag coefficient and modest 25.8-square-foot frontal area...

http://www.caranddriver.com/flipbook/12-things-to-know-about-chevrolets-30000-bolt-ev#6

The Leaf is the boxiest shape we wheeled into the wind tunnel, and it has this test’s second-largest frontal area at 24.5 square feet. Combined with a 0.32 drag coefficient, that yields a 7.8-square-foot drag area. This is a reasonable figure for a five-passenger wagon...

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/drag-queens-aerodynamics-compared-comparison-test-fifth-place-nissan-leaf-page-2

Not unexpected, considering the bolt is shorter, taller, and ~the same width as a LEAF.

So you can probably expect the Bolt to get ~160 miles of total freeway range (if ~54 kWh use is allowed, and efficiency is ~3 m/kWh) from a Bolt at ~70 mph, with warm temperatures on a level route, using no climate control.

Less range in any less than ideal conditions, of course.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

just learned CCS won't even be part of the standard package which means fast charge will put me beyond the WA State tax credit...

Is that based on MSRP or price paid less govt. taxes/fees?

neither... sale price

 

[OakLeaf]

This may not be the best place to post this, but it seems to fit in here as there was quite a bit of discussion up-thread about the future of the LEAF - 2016 vs. 2017 vs. Gen2:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18907&start=290#p437584

During a call to the 1-800-854-3310 number to see what the end of lease options were for our 2012, I had a discussion with the agent about what the future may hold for the LEAF.

They said according to the information they presently have, they are expecting the new 2017 to be announced by the end of this November. When asked if it would be the next generation, or the existing LEAF, they said it was the existing LEAF. No details about the battery pack options or other changes were available (or they opted not to say).

Probably, this is nearly useless information and not worth the bits it's encoded with, but I thought I'd post it here all the same.

 

[TomT]

Yep, there is no less accurate source of information than Leaf CS! :lol:

Probably, this is nearly useless information and not worth the bits it's encoded with, but I thought I'd post it here all the same.

 

[user 10599]

I guess it is possible for them to match the 2017 Bolt range with the existing Leaf platform loaded with a bigger battery? So perhaps the 2017 Leaf won't be the Gen 2 Leaf afterall.

 

[Valdemar]

I guess it is possible for them to match the 2017 Bolt range with the existing Leaf platform loaded with a bigger battery? So perhaps the 2017 Leaf won't be the Gen 2 Leaf afterall.

2x bigger with existing technology and no active cooling? I say no way.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I guess it is possible for them to match the 2017 Bolt range with the existing Leaf platform loaded with a bigger battery? So perhaps the 2017 Leaf won't be the Gen 2 Leaf afterall.

2x bigger with existing technology and no active cooling? I say no way.

It needs to have 2X the capacity, but not necessarily be 2X the size or weight.

 

[Valdemar]

^^^ True, but given the temperature rise during QC in the 24kwh pack I suspect you just can't do without active cooling in a pack with more than 2x capacity.

 

[LeftieBiker]

OK, but why can't the existing platform have active cooling added?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

^^^ True, but given the temperature rise during QC in the 24kwh pack I suspect you just can't do without active cooling in a pack with more than 2x capacity.

Actually, the same charge rate on a 2x battery is half the "C rate". In other words, charging a 24kWh battery at 48kW is 2C, but charging a 48kWh battery at 48kW is 1C. The latter is less stressful and will produce less heat per cell.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

^^^ True, but given the temperature rise during QC in the 24kwh pack I suspect you just can't do without active cooling in a pack with more than 2x capacity.

Actually, the same charge rate on a 2x battery is half the "C rate". In other words, charging a 24kWh battery at 48kW is 2C, but charging a 48kWh battery at 48kW is 1C. The latter is less stressful and will produce less heat per cell.

higher charge density should do a pretty good job of eliminating any advantage lower C would provide...

 

[GRA]

WSJ's always entertaining Dan Neil on the Bolt:

In the Future, Chevy’s Going to Need a Bigger Bolt

http://www.wsj.com/articles/in-the-future-chevys-going-to-need-a-bigger-bolt-1455215871

 

[WetEV]

Or outside the paywall:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chevys-new-bolt-is-it-good-enough-for-a-future-of-electric-cars-2016-02-13

 

[arnis]

My few cents:
Will Bolt beat (temporarily) Leaf and other low range EV-s with longer trip possibility: yes. 300-400miles per day will be possible.
Will Bolt catch up Model S 70kWh or Model III in terms of long range trips (one a week-month)? No. Never. Not during this decade.
Why? Because 75 miles of highway range per half an hour wait is not enough. And that limit is a constant Bolt will not beat.
It will be inconvenient. Not because it is such a long wait but because there is another car that charger more than twice as fast
that doesn't cost twice as much.

 

[EVDRIVER]

My few cents:
Will Bolt beat (temporarily) Leaf and other low range EV-s with longer trip possibility: yes. 300-400miles per day will be possible.
Will Bolt catch up Model S 70kWh or Model III in terms of long range trips (one a week-month)? No. Never. Not during this decade.
Why? Because 75 miles of highway range per half an hour wait is not enough. And that limit is a constant Bolt will not beat.
It will be inconvenient. Not because it is such a long wait but because there is another car that charger more than twice as fast
that doesn't cost twice as much.

Not to mention the stations won't be in many critical places and those that are will likely be busy and often used by those that don't need them. Tesla regulates this where others have no management. Tesla's charging infrastructure was a brilliant investment. Once Bolt sales slump the heavy discounts will hit to stimulate sales. My guess is Nissan is making adjustments to the LEAF but not enough and the company is still to conservative to make them big enough to make a mark.

I think Nissan will not change the LEAF platform past heavy cosmetic changes and average pack upgrades, I even expect performance to suffer behind others. A true commitment to an EV is a real ground up platform like the Tesla. These old platform-based models are sill not all the way there and suffering from ICE restrictions like FWD and higher weight.

The Bolt is a stop-gap EV for GM but one that is also going to fill the gap on the LEAF which will likely try to remain positioned as a lower cost and lower range alternative with attractive lease deals. Nissan is still trying to maximize their platform and leveraging pack investments and I don't see them doing anything big for some time. Sadly I still think their product development team is still bound by conservative and ICE bonds.

 

[TomT]

One of the many reasons why I did not replace the Leaf with another and likely will also not consider it in the future...

Nissan is still trying to maximize their platform and leveraging pack investments and I don't see them doing anything big for some time. Sadly I still think their product development team is still bound by conservative and ICE bonds.

 

[redLEAF]

After seeing (just from a distance) the new Bolt (still a concept at the time) at the Chicago Auto Show I would have to agree ...

“GM is making a $37,500 car that would sell for $20,000 if it wasn’t electric, while Tesla is making a $35,000 car that would sell for $35,000 if it wasn’t electric.”


Not that there is anything wrong with that, but a bit unlike the LEAF which was NOT simply a Versa with a battery (I've driven a new Versa as the Nissan loaner they gave me while it was in for service; the LEAF isn't simply that).

Would be interesting to see what the EPA figures end up being for the Bolt (how far over the 200 mile range they go)

http://electrek.co/2016/04/07/tesla-model-3-chevy-bolt/

'Luxury' is indeed a perception to most but fit & finish, quality of materials used (hard or soft touch plastics, etc.) all come into play; after driving an Audi A3 e-tron, as well as owning a VW Touareg many of these 'luxury' touches fail to sway buyers but what you're willing to pay does in the end.

I would wonder (although GM/Chevy isn't taking reservations/pre-orders ... yet) how much genuine interest there will be?

 

[mihird]

Bolt & Leaf Gen 2 will have to undercut Tesla on pricing and I think, they will.

Neither of them have anything close to Tesla's charging infrastructure, the brand appeal, nor are likely to have top end features like autopilot, summon etc. in their immediate offerings.

 

[edatoakrun]

New bolt drivetrain/battery pack details reported, indicating GM is moving toward a more LEAF-like approach to pack usage and thermal management, both good ideas IMO:

GM Engineers Discuss the 2017 Chevy Bolt’s Powertrain

...Almost all of the energy is used in a full discharge cycle, and very little is left as a “buffer” as in the case of the Volt extended-range EV.

GM’s Greg Smith, engineering group manager, global EV battery packs avoided calling the battery “better” but said it is bleeding edge, he is “proud” of the total result, and it’s the best they have for the application.

The LG Chem cells are of NMC chemistry with extra nickel for improved heat tolerance, said Smith.

Further, the pack will be allowed to run a bit warmer than in the Volt. Temperatures in the pack change slowly, he said, due to the entire assembly’s 960 pound mass...

http://www.hybridcars.com/gm-engineers-discuss-the-2017-chevy-bolts-powertrain/

Older article with more details of various BEVs active thermal management systems:

...Bolt EV appears to use simpler passive inter cell cooling...

http://www.hybridcars.com/2017-chevy-bolt-battery-cooling-and-gearbox-details/