Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

[GetOffYourGas]

Do both of your cars really need to do all of the above? Or rather, between the two of them, you need to do all of the above? If the former, I'm amazed that you even considered a Leaf in the first place. I know Seattle has decent infrastructure but even so, your "long distance" must be much shorter than mine.

Obviously we don't need both to be long distance cars.

No offense, but this is not obvious. If it were, I wouldn't ask. I do know people who are married, have children, and frequently go on long trips in opposite directions as their spouse. It's rare, but that happens with me at times. For example, I go camping with friends (the mountains are out of my Leaf's range - and I'm meeting people coming from the opposite direction), and my wife takes the kids to her parents' house for the weekend (again, out of the Leaf's range). I've been fortunate enough to be able to borrow a car. I could also rent. Many people are not willing to do either.

Regarding leasing, that's a good way to keep your car relevant to your lifestyle. But it also must get pretty expensive over time. Not that buying is a free lunch - monthly payments and/or down payments are higher. But with leasing, you are always paying for the steepest part of the depreciation curve.

Myth. Depends on the exact lease terms. You can trace my calculations and posts/threads on this over the last 5 years here on MNL.

No thanks! You currently have over 10,000 posts on MNL. Help me out here. I assume you are referring to the latter part (depreciation) of my statement as a myth rather than the former (relevance). So how is it a "myth" that the steepest part of the depreciation of a car is in the first 3 years? Nissan uses a standard 44% residual for their 3-year lease calculation. That means the car has depreciated by 54% of its original value in years 1-3. How is it possible to depreciate more in years 4-6? That means at year 6, the car would have negative value. You would have to pay someone to take it from you. And keeping it to year 9 would mean you have to pay more than half of what you bought it for in order to dispose of it. In that case, people would just be abandoning cars. Or selling them to chop shops. Clearly not the case.

 

[evnow]

No thanks! You currently have over 10,000 posts on MNL. Help me out here. I assume you are referring to the latter part (depreciation) of my statement as a myth rather than the former (relevance). So how is it a "myth" that the steepest part of the depreciation of a car is in the first 3 years? Nissan uses a standard 44% residual for their 3-year lease calculation. That means the car has depreciated by 54% of its original value in years 1-3. How is it possible to depreciate more in years 4-6? That means at year 6, the car would have negative value. You would have to pay someone to take it from you. And keeping it to year 9 would mean you have to pay more than half of what you bought it for in order to dispose of it. In that case, people would just be abandoning cars. Or selling them to chop shops. Clearly not the case.

It is a myth - because you can always buy the car at the end of the lease.

Essentially lease is a financing method - that assigns the risk of any higher than anticipated depreciation to the leasing company. So, depending on the residual and interest - it may be better to lease than finance - or not.

In the case of EVs - because the 7.5k credit can all be applied to the first 2 or 3 years - it can be incredibly cheap. Like my $125 a month lease.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

No thanks! You currently have over 10,000 posts on MNL. Help me out here. I assume you are referring to the latter part (depreciation) of my statement as a myth rather than the former (relevance). So how is it a "myth" that the steepest part of the depreciation of a car is in the first 3 years? Nissan uses a standard 44% residual for their 3-year lease calculation. That means the car has depreciated by 54% of its original value in years 1-3. How is it possible to depreciate more in years 4-6? That means at year 6, the car would have negative value. You would have to pay someone to take it from you. And keeping it to year 9 would mean you have to pay more than half of what you bought it for in order to dispose of it. In that case, people would just be abandoning cars. Or selling them to chop shops. Clearly not the case.

It is a myth - because you can always buy the car at the end of the lease.

Essentially lease is a financing method - that assigns the risk of any higher than anticipated depreciation to the leasing company. So, depending on the residual and interest - it may be better to lease than finance - or not.

In the case of EVs - because the 7.5k credit can all be applied to the first 2 or 3 years - it can be incredibly cheap. Like my $125 a month lease.

I don't want to continue to hijack this thread, so I will just say this. I originally read your comment as you always lease every car, not just related to EVs. Thinking about EVs, the market is highly distorted. The $7500 tax credit, combined with very rapid improvements, make the situation very different than leasing, for example, an Altima.

And I understand that leasing is financing, my point was about *always* leasing back-to-back. Financially, it's almost always worse than buying and keeping. Consider the case of either buying a new car and keeping it for 9 years (should be few if any major mechanical issues in that time) versus three back-to-back 3-year leases. In the case of EVs today, you may be better leasing because you'd get that $7500 three times instead of twice. That's an extra $15,000! Without it, the equation changes.

I'm sure that you ran your numbers, and I have no reason not to trust you that leasing EVs works out better for you. For my situation, I ran my own numbers and buying my Leaf outright works out better, even if it depreciates to zero. Anything I can sell it for after 9 years is just gravy.

So anyway, I apologize for hijacking yet another thread.

 

[evnow]

Interesting post in gm-volt.

http://gm-volt.com/2015/06/19/design-possibilities-for-the-chevy-bolt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Estimates of Bolt size etc. Estimated length of 166 is 7" longer than sonic but would still be smaller than Leaf's 175. Ofcourse the estimate of .26 cd is optimistic given the shape.

 

[GRA]

Interesting post in gm-volt.

http://gm-volt.com/2015/06/19/design-possibilities-for-the-chevy-bolt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Estimates of Bolt size etc. Estimated length of 166 is 7" longer than sonic but would still be smaller than Leaf's 175. Ofcourse the estimate of .26 cd is optimistic given the shape. <snip>

Although the above is nothing more than speculation, I sure hope GM opts for a taller final drive ratio. I'll happily trade-off 0-60 time for better 30-50 and 50-70 passing, quieter cruising and better freeway range. Leave the drag racing ratio for the modders - this is supposed to be a go (almost) everywhere car, not an urban stoplight dragster.

 

[GRA]

Via ievs:

Chevrolet Bolt: 55 Pre-Production Cars Made And Exceeding 200 Mile Range Target

http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-55-pre-production-cars-exceeding-200-miles-range/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[evnow]

It looks like Bolt is on target for a 2016 production - early 2017 rollout.

Possible they'll beat Leaf 2.

Definitely Model 3 by a year or two.

May be Volt fans and people turned off by Nissan because of Leaf battery issues will get one. Esp. the ones arguing here it is big enough

 

[GetOffYourGas]

It looks like Bolt is on target for a 2016 production - early 2017 rollout.

Possible they'll beat Leaf 2.

Definitely Model 3 by a year or two.

May be Volt fans and people turned off by Nissan because of Leaf battery issues will get one. Esp. the ones arguing here it is big enough

Nissan has said that they will beat Bolt to market, but this definitely calls that into question. One thing is clear - the race is on. And the winner is the consumer

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

It looks like Bolt is on target for a 2016 production - early 2017 rollout.

Possible they'll beat Leaf 2.

Definitely Model 3 by a year or two.

May be Volt fans and people turned off by Nissan because of Leaf battery issues will get one. Esp. the ones arguing here it is big enough

i predict LEAF II by Sept/Oct 2016 so ya, its possible. anything is possible

 

[asimba2]

Estimates of Bolt size etc. Estimated length of 166 is 7" longer than sonic but would still be smaller than Leaf's 175.

I think people with small children will understand this scenario:

I was really hoping the Bolt would be at least the size of the Leaf, if not slightly larger, because....see above. A higher range car needs the ability to carry passengers and cargo for overnight trips, hence the reason the TSX gets used a lot.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

The Chevy Bolt EV looks to be taller than the Leaf, at least. We'll learn what the actual dimensions are fairly soon.

 

[Sublime]

I can't get my head around the scale. It looks like a tiny car, but then I see the license plate bracket and it throws off my assumptions.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

I think it is a bit bigger than the BMW i3.

 

[DesertSprings]

I'd actually like to see busier paint/wrap schemes available as factory options. Monocolors are boring.

 

[evnow]

Some more spy shots.

https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2015/30/spy-shots—2017-chevy-bolt-ev

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Is there some purpose for the camouflage, other than to scream test car?

 

[evnow]

Is there some purpose for the camouflage, other than to scream test car?

To hide design details.

 

[edatoakrun]

Since the Bolt is reported to be based on the new Gamma G2SC platform, I think we should expect it to be slightly narrower and shorter than the LEAF, and (looking at the photos) nearly the same height.

This should help to give the Bolt lower Aero resistance than the LEAF gen 1, helping it to reach GM's "200 mile" range projections.

 

[Moof]

Curious that the wheels are open and not mostly filled in for lower drag like most EV's and the concept car had.

The heavy leaks are reminiscent of the Volt that was hyped to death, and probably lost them sales from those that are attracted to new shiny objects but had been seeing Volt news blurbs for years before launch.

 

[kubel]

Is there some purpose for the camouflage, other than to scream test car?

Post-reveal, it's less about corporate espionage and more about consumer view. They don't want customers to see a beat up, dented, scratched, dirty test vehicle (these things are driven hard) and get that as their impression of the vehicle when it arrives in showrooms- so they attempt to camouflage its wear.

Marketing has also exploited the attention that test vehicles get. I've seen some with QR codes on them. Their purpose is to generate excitement and get people sharing the car via social networking before it has launched.