Charging that Electric Car Could Cost More Than Tank of Gas

[Herm]

Norway is quite a nice place for electric car owners!

Apparently so!.. lets see what the EV uptake is this year with all those incentives.

 

[thankyouOB]

danb european socialists. what do they know!

 

[planet4ever]

Their answer was interesting. They said that they discussed that option with Coulomb. Coulomb told them that they cannot charge by KWh because of a law (no details) that says that only Public Utilities can do that.

I believe there are laws or regulations that say only PUs can sell electricity. See, for example, this post made by EV Oasis: EV Oasis DC Charging Network

The reason for the rules is presumably to keep landlords from gouging their tenants by reselling electricity for each apartment at an exorbitant rate. I know there have been discussions on this board about possible exceptions or changes to this policy, but I can't seem to find them at the moment.

Ray

 

[Norway]

Norway is quite a nice place for electric car owners!

Apparently so!.. lets see what the EV uptake is this year with all those incentives.

For 2011, 1.47% of cars sold in the entire country were electric. The next is Denmark, with 0.21% and the Netherlands with 0.16%.

Norway, with less than 5 million inhabitants, is in third place in electric car sales for Europe, only surpassed by France and Germany (which have massively larger populations).

Currently CHAdeMO fast chargers are being installed along highways.

 

[kevin672]

Norway is quite a nice place for electric car owners!

Apparently so!.. lets see what the EV uptake is this year with all those incentives.

For 2011, 1.47% of cars sold in the entire country were electric. The next is Denmark, with 0.21% and the Netherlands with 0.16%.

Norway, with less than 5 million inhabitants, is in third place in electric car sales for Europe, only surpassed by France and Germany (which have massively larger populations).

Currently CHAdeMO fast chargers are being installed along highways.

This is a just bit off topic, but anybody see the Netflix original series "Lillyhammer"? It takes place in Lillyhammer, Norway. An electric car that I didn't recognize as even being electric is featured pretty prominently as the protagonists main vehicle (and unfortunately, a bit of a joke). There's even a scene in one episode where it show's him unplugging it as they're going after the bad guys.

 

[ht2]

Now Walgreens has clarified that where possible, its electric car charging stations will be ultra-fast rapid DC charging stations -- capable of charging compatible cars like the 2011/12 Nissan Leaf and 2012 Mitsubishi i from empty to 80 percent full in just 30 minutes.
About 150 of the 800 charging stations will be the DC rapid-charging station.
paying $4 to recharge? We’d gladly pay for the convenience of a 30-minute recharge, Wouldn't you?

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1065723_walgreens-installs-dc-rapid-electric-car-chargers-where-practical" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Now Walgreens has clarified that where possible, its electric car charging stations will be ultra-fast rapid DC charging stations -- capable of charging compatible cars like the 2011/12 Nissan Leaf and 2012 Mitsubishi i from empty to 80 percent full in just 30 minutes.
About 150 of the 800 charging stations will be the DC rapid-charging station.
paying $4 to recharge? We’d gladly pay for the convenience of a 30-minute recharge, Wouldn't you?

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1065723_walgreens-installs-dc-rapid-electric-car-chargers-where-practical" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

$4 for 30 minutes? ya, i would do it. sure much more expensive than powering up at home but it would be cheaper than gas.

 

[Herm]

If Walgreens is charging $4 for an L2 charge, imagine what they will charge for an L3 charge..

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

If Walgreens is charging $4 for an L2 charge, imagine what they will charge for an L3 charge..

i believe that is $4 for L3 if not, it would not matter whether they charged $4 or $44. no one would do it anyway

 

[jkirkebo]

This is a just bit off topic, but anybody see the Netflix original series "Lillyhammer"? It takes place in Lillyhammer, Norway. An electric car that I didn't recognize as even being electric is featured pretty prominently as the protagonists main vehicle (and unfortunately, a bit of a joke). There's even a scene in one episode where it show's him unplugging it as they're going after the bad guys.

It's a Think City. 2008-2011 model year. I don't think the series portrays the EV in a bad light in any way.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

This is a just bit off topic, but anybody see the Netflix original series "Lillyhammer"? It takes place in Lillyhammer, Norway. An electric car that I didn't recognize as even being electric is featured pretty prominently as the protagonists main vehicle (and unfortunately, a bit of a joke). There's even a scene in one episode where it show's him unplugging it as they're going after the bad guys.

It's a Think City. 2008-2011 model year. I don't think the series portrays the EV in a bad light in any way.

got it in my queue!

 

[jtrosario]

Just last week, the Illinois Tollway Authority installed the first set of Level 3 charging stations, with a set planned for every Illinois Tollway Oasis in both directions(generally located in the Chicago suburban area). I would say that the Oasis' are about 10-20 miles apart from each other on the tollway system, making this very convenient. I've personally verified that the stations are installed and appear to be on and ready to use in both directions at the O'Hare oasis on I-294. They are are located in (a currently unmarked) parking space at each gas station/mini-mart which is right next to a much larger Oasis with indoor walking areas, food-court restaurants, and restrooms. The charge will be $6 for up to two hours use. In Illinois, the law prohibits reselling of electricity, so the $6 set fee is for two hours regardless of electricity used.

Also, the City of Chicago is immediately planning on FREE use of L3 chargers in paid short-term parking & free cell phone lots at both O'Hare and Midway airports. Verified that the O'Hare cell lot is NOT installed yet, reports state that the first of those have already been installed at Midway airport.

Personally, my rare need for a quick charge (multiple airport runs in one day for a yearly special event or longer drive usually on the tollway) is met completely by these two recent announcements. And my closest Nissan dealer is one of the few with an L3 installed. I'm really looking forward to delivery of my Leaf now, my personal "range-anxiety" is completely gone!

Corrected 1/18/14: My dealer does NOT have a Quick Charge (I previously mistook it for L3)
The Illinois Tollway system marks its QC chargers with L3 signage even though that is incorrect.
No one who did not have an account previously with the charging company is allowed to sign up and therefore actually use the QC chargers already installed (with some still working).

 

[Herm]

Wonderful news JTRosario

 

[toasty]

i would be willing to pay 2x market rate for the power.. (no more)..

 

[davewill]

... And my closest Nissan dealer is one of the few with an L3 installed. I'm really looking forward to delivery of my Leaf now, my personal "range-anxiety" is completely gone!

Really? So far every report of a dealer with QC (L3 is actually something else) has turned out to be bad info from dealership personnel who don't know the difference between L2 and QC.

 

[walterbays]

i would be willing to pay 2x market rate for the power.. (no more)..

"Market rate" is hard to get at for electricity. Here, residential night time electricity (when you normally recharge at home) costs about 1/3 as much as residential day time electricity (when you would likely be recharging at a public facility). Commercial rates (at which the public charger use would be billed) are maybe 1/2 as much as residential. But then if a single usage at a QC station draws more than 20 kW during any 15 minute period of the month, it may incur an additional $800 demand fee. And the market rate of a parking space in which to do the charging is usually several times more than the market rate of the electricity itself. So 2x "market rate" might be $0.17/kWh or it might be $1,600 per charge.

Two definitions of "market rate" seem most useful to me. 1) The rate you would otherwise pay for charging at home in the middle of the day. Or 2) The equivalent amount you would otherwise pay for gasoline in an average mid-size ICE car for the same range.

I think L2 should either be offered as a shopping amenity like Wifi, or be priced at least 2X the cost to recharge at home overnight but no more than 2X the cost to recharge at home in the afternoon. I think L3 should be priced at least 2X the cost to recharge at home in the afternoon but no more than 1.5X the cost of gasoline. I'm not sure but I think those prices would be high enough for operators to make enough profit to make recharging a good business, resulting in many charging locations, resulting in thousands more EV's being sold - *and* be low enough that all those charging locations would actually have business, and those new EV's would actually be bought.

 

[Herm]

Or 2) The equivalent amount you would otherwise pay for gasoline in an average mid-size ICE car for the same range.

I think that is what he meant.. so about 70miles/22mpg * $8/gallon, or $25

 

[TonyWilliams]

i would be willing to pay 2x market rate for the power.. (no more)..

I'm with you!!! Two times the market wholesale rate though! So, about 3.5 cents times two is 7 cents, times about 21 kWh for a near entry tank.... $1.47 max. A more typical 10 min charge would only cost about 50 cents, so that should just be free.

But I expect these chargers no more than 5 miles apart, or I won't use them either. And I should get a free refreshment while waiting, with a fully furnished waiting room, for free of course.

I won't let these crooks rip me off. Actually, there should be a law that everything is free.