charging on generator

[frbill]

Thanks for the replies. The reason I am looking at the Powerland generator is because it is tri fuel powered. I want a unit that can be fired with Natural Gas as that is very dependable if the mains go down (No power to run Gasoline Pumps). Also this unit allows for 240V charging. I guess if worse comes to worst and I can't figure out how to plug the EVSE Upgrade to the generator directly, I will get a transfer switch and hook up the generator through the house's wiring, thus supplying an appropriate ground.

I sent a request into EVSE Upgrade asking for assistance with this. If I get a reply I will post back here. Again thanks for the replies.

Peace,

Fr. Bill

 

[smkettner]

Thanks for the replies. The reason I am looking at the Powerland generator is because it is tri fuel powered. I want a unit that can be fired with Natural Gas as that is very dependable if the mains go down (No power to run Gasoline Pumps). Also this unit allows for 240V charging. I guess if worse comes to worst and I can't figure out how to plug the EVSE Upgrade to the generator directly, I will get a transfer switch and hook up the generator through the house's wiring, thus supplying an appropriate ground.

I sent a request into EVSE Upgrade asking for assistance with this. If I get a reply I will post back here. Again thanks for the replies.

Peace,

Fr. Bill

EVSE-Upgrade will have the adapter you need. You will just have to tell them what outlet the generator has.
Worst case easy to make your own. Not a big deal.

 

[dsinned]

Depending on your generator's output capabilities, you may need an adapter like this ($32 on Amazon):

http://www.amazon.com/Camco-55422-P...id=1413406212&sr=8-11&keywords=l14-30+adapter

Although in the photo you provided earlier, looks like the generator you have in mind already has a NEMA 14-50R outlet, (suitable for many L2 EVSE, especially "open sourced"), so you may not actually need an adapter.

 

[fooljoe]

I would make your own adapter and instead of connecting the ground from the EVSE to the plug into the generator, connect it to the ground wire of a long 120v extension cord that you can plug in to your main structure (safely cap off the hot and neutral lines of course- and put the connections in a box to be safe.) You should probably also take a short piece of ground wire and connect it to the generator plug ground and tie it in with the EVSE/120V cord grounds so the generator is grounded.

Alternatively, you could just use a regular pre-made adapter for the generator and use the ground-only extension cord method to ground the generator independently. But more importantly, how have you determined whether this generator will work at all for charging? As many have pointed out, charging off a generator is largely hit-and-miss (mostly miss.)

 

[QueenBee]

I would make your own adapter and instead of connecting the ground from the EVSE to the plug into the generator, connect it to the ground wire of a long 120v extension cord that you can plug in to your main structure (safely cap off the hot and neutral lines of course- and put the connections in a box to be safe.) You should probably also take a short piece of ground wire and connect it to the generator plug ground and tie it in with the EVSE/120V cord grounds so the generator is grounded.

I don't believe that fixes the floating ground problem does it? If the ground and neutral are not bounded connecting your generator ground to your homes ground does nothing to change this.

 

[nerys]

so.... what about charging the car on a generator "WHILE" driving?

ie small 40" trailer with genset on it. how would one make such a connection? might get me those extra 10 miles I might need in the dead of winter....

 

[smkettner]

so.... what about charging the car on a generator "WHILE" driving?

ie small 40" trailer with genset on it. how would one make such a connection? might get me those extra 10 miles I might need in the dead of winter....

Easiest to put a wheel down as a pusher.

 

[nerys]

that sounds awfully complex to me. engineering an entire "vehicle" for all intents and purposes versus electrical connections?

I don't really need to. only the dead of winter will be a problem and for the 4 or 5 times it is a problem I can just drive an ICE.

more of a "would be fun to do it" kind of thing if its feasible

 

[fooljoe]

Nerys - that idea has been discussed at length in this 26 page thread. Enjoy - especially make sure you find the pics of Ingineer's LPG turbine generator trailer! Long story short is just taking half of an old car as a "pusher" trailer is MUCH simpler than trying to make the electrical connections, but it's still fun to think about.

I would make your own adapter and instead of connecting the ground from the EVSE to the plug into the generator, connect it to the ground wire of a long 120v extension cord that you can plug in to your main structure (safely cap off the hot and neutral lines of course- and put the connections in a box to be safe.) You should probably also take a short piece of ground wire and connect it to the generator plug ground and tie it in with the EVSE/120V cord grounds so the generator is grounded.

I don't believe that fixes the floating ground problem does it? If the ground and neutral are not bounded connecting your generator ground to your homes ground does nothing to change this.

Connecting to your home's ground is giving a generator a real earth ground (assuming the outlet you plug into is actually grounded properly.) I would think this is certainly preferable over "spoofing" the ground check. What does it matter if the ground and neutral are bonded, since the idea is to charge on 240V and not use the neutral at all?

 

[alanlarson]

I don't believe that fixes the floating ground problem does it? If the ground and neutral are not bounded connecting your generator ground to your homes ground does nothing to change this.

Connecting to your home's ground is giving a generator a real earth ground (assuming the outlet you plug into is actually grounded properly.) I would think this is certainly preferable over "spoofing" the ground check. What does it matter if the ground and neutral are bonded, since the idea is to charge on 240V and not use the neutral at all?

If the ground and neutral are not bonded, the EVSE will not see voltage between the ground and neutral leads. As such, it will reject the power source.

 

[QueenBee]

I don't believe that fixes the floating ground problem does it? If the ground and neutral are not bounded connecting your generator ground to your homes ground does nothing to change this.

Connecting to your home's ground is giving a generator a real earth ground (assuming the outlet you plug into is actually grounded properly.) I would think this is certainly preferable over "spoofing" the ground check. What does it matter if the ground and neutral are bonded, since the idea is to charge on 240V and not use the neutral at all?

If the ground and neutral are not bonded, the EVSE will not see voltage between the ground and neutral leads. As such, it will reject the power source.

And if using 240 volt the voltage potential between your home's ground/neutral and one of the hot legs of the generator is 0 right? So you'll fail the ground test which will not you charge which is the goal.

 

[smkettner]

Two hot and a ground.... how would the EVSE check neutral/ground when there is no neutral?

 

[Graycenphil]

And if using 240 volt the voltage potential between your home's ground/neutral and one of the hot legs of the generator is 0 right? So you'll fail the ground test which will not you charge which is the goal.

Won't the potential between one hot leg and neutral be 120 volts?

 

[dgpcolorado]

Nerys - that idea has been discussed at length in this 26 page thread. Enjoy - especially make sure you find the pics of Ingineer's LPG turbine generator trailer! ...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6847&start=84

 

[nerys]

I was hoping for something us mere mortals can afford. ie using a regular gas/diesel generator to put the regular 3.3kw into the car while driving for that tiny bit of extra go in the winter

 

[dgpcolorado]

I was hoping for something us mere mortals can afford. ie using a regular gas/diesel generator to put the regular 3.3kw into the car while driving for that tiny bit of extra go in the winter

Not a problem. What you want is called a "Chevy Volt"!

[Yes, I realize it is likely much too small for you.]

 

[nerys]

Chevy volt is one of the most expensive cars I can buy with a 10 year TRC of $98,000 versus the leaf at around $40k including two batteries. And that volt price does not factor in replacement batteries for it.

I figure I will need the range extension maybe half a dozen times a year (coldest part of winter)

So no. I do not need a piece of garbage volt.

 

[muus]

Tested charging my Leaf with a 3500 W propane generator and my upgraded Panasonic EVSE. First thing I did was to ground the generator to a real ground. (house ground to ground lead on generator frame) Then I set the EVSE to 6A at 120V and plugged the car in, charging started perfectly. I bumped up the amperage and repeated the previous steps a few times until I got up to 12A, worked every time.

My next test was to try to charge on 240v. I set the EVSE to 6A and plugged the car in. The blue LED on the dash started blinking but the generator didn't seem to be loaded (no change in engine sound). After a little while, the blue led stopped blinking indicating that the car wasn't charging. I plugged in a "Kill-a-watt" meter and adjusted the engine speed to get exactly 60Hz (voltage was within tolerance). Still the car wouldn't charge on 240v. Just for fun I plugged in a small (500w) electric heater to the generator then plugged in the Leaf. Now the car started charging. - Weird -

I repeated the above experiment several times and unless the heater was on, the car wouldn't start charging. (I can turn the heater off once charging has begun). I was able to bump up the amperage all the way to 12 (quickly turning off the heater once the car started charging). I didn't go any higher than this since the generator is rated at 2800 W (3500 surge). At 12 Amps that's 2880 W, slightly over its rated output. Besides, the generator seemed to be working pretty hard!

So now I know that if I have a long power outage at my cottage, I will be able to charge up the Leaf to get back home.

Here is the generator I am using (bought used):
http://www.amazon.com/All-Power-America-Propane-Generator/dp/B0035I1UOO

 

[muus]

I was hoping for something us mere mortals can afford. ie using a regular gas/diesel generator to put the regular 3.3kw into the car while driving for that tiny bit of extra go in the winter

I'd also like to be able to do this, although I wouldn't put it IN the car. I sometimes pull a trailer with my Leaf and doing so costs me about 25% range. I brought my empty trailer back from the cottage once and had to drive below the speed limit to make it home (in ideal weather conditions). I don't think I'll try it again so pulling the trailer means I have to use my Mazda 5. Having my generator running in the trailer would net me an additional 3 kWh, enough to compensate for the additional load from the trailer.

 

[nerys]

Any idea why you lost 25% from the trailer? I don't see that kind of loss in my metro towing a trailer? (in fact mileage is largely unchanged at least not measurable over 400 miles of driving)

what kind of trailer? mass? Size?

with my metro even towing a 400 pound tractor only reduced my fuel economy 1 or 2 mpg but ANY mass even as low as 30 pound but with large AERO drag (ie sticking out the sides of the car or over the roof line) has a simple MASSIVE impact on fuel economy and voided 5th gear (XFI with oversized tires for lower gearing)

its why I use the 40x42 HF trailers I have (same as inginer used for his turbine trailer) I can lift the trailer with my bare hands so it has to be around or under 100 pounds I would guess and is narrower than the car. so no aero penalty and no mass penalty.