CHAdeMO and SAE dual ported DC Fast Chargers

[ElectricVehicle]

This topic is for posting CHAdeMO and SAE dual ported DC Fast Chargers products and discussing them.

Here's one of the first units: Quick Charger with CHAdeMO and new SAE standard by efacec via 350Green's Twitter. This is the same company that makes the DC QC at Stanford Mall.

 

[GeekEV]

Neat! I wonder how much more it adds to the cost of the unit to support both standards?

 

[TEG]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5806#p196140" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ElectricVehicle]

I haven't investigated cost yet of the efacec CHAdeMO and SAE dual ported DC Fast Charger. That is one of the key questions!

Thanks TEG for the great image! Where did you dig that up from?

 

[TEG]

Thanks TEG for the great image! Where did you dig that up from?

Just click on the link above the picture. I didn't take the picture... Just saw it here on this forum! (by user "JeremyW")

 

[GRA]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5806#p196140

We now offer you a choice in how we give you a prostate exam! :lol:

 

[smkettner]

And someone was worried about an adapter? Or becoming obsolete?

 

[Randy]

I remain cautious about the cost/practicality of this type of charger. A person I trust who knows a lot about DC Fast Charging told me that the two standards would require separate power electronics because Chademo uses a floating ground system while SAE does not. His opinion was that a combo charger could really end up being almost two separate chargers in the same box, hence even more expensive than the current price of the Chademo units...

So, while it may be technically possible to produce, it is sounding like it could potentially be considerably more expensive....

 

[Boomer23]

Thanks TEG for the great image! Where did you dig that up from?

Just click on the link above the picture. I didn't take the picture... Just saw it here on this forum! (by user "JeremyW")

Read the EVS26 thread here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5806&hilit=evs26&start=40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Boomer23]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5806#p196140

We now offer you a choice in how we give you a prostate exam! :lol:

No, the exam is still digital. These analog devices are for the biopsy. :lol:

 

[TEG]

Somehow it makes me think 'branding iron'...

 

[IBELEAF]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5806#p196140

I like SAE charger more after seeing it on this picture, it looks more ergonomic to hold and plugin...

 

[TonyWilliams]

I like SAE charger more after seeing it on this picture, it looks more ergonomic to hold and plugin...

Compared to the Yazaki handle, anything is better!!! That handle is made in several different configurations for ChaDeMo.

 

[JeremyW]

I remain cautious about the cost/practicality of this type of charger. A person I trust who knows a lot about DC Fast Charging told me that the two standards would require separate power electronics because Chademo uses a floating ground system while SAE does not. His opinion was that a combo charger could really end up being almost two separate chargers in the same box, hence even more expensive than the current price of the Chademo units...

So, while it may be technically possible to produce, it is sounding like it could potentially be considerably more expensive....

I talked to a vender there and asked the same question, and the answer I got is that they planed on using the isolated charger with SAE. An SAE car would work on an isolated or non-isolated charger. Since they need to carry CHAdeMO which requires isolation, these hybrid models (hydras?) will have power electronics with an isolated (high frequency transformer) design. If there's lot more SAE DC capable cars in the future, and they can get away with dropping the CHAdeMO cable, then they could go the non-isolated route. And I'm personally for non-isolation, as it simplifies the power electronics design.

Would have been nice if they kept CAN though.

Jeremy

 

[nosuchthing]

Let the Betamax vs VHS fight begin!

 

[TimeHorse]

For what it's worth, the broad outline of the Keys to Halifax legislation I'm working on would require dual-gang (I call these dual-gang units) to receive the tax credit. The rough outline pending actual legislation in the Virginia General Assembly would look something like this:

Tax Credit for the installation of Dual-Gang SAE and CHAdeMO Level 3 DC Fast Chargers
To qualify the property owner must be at least 15/20/30/50? mi away from any other such unit in the accessible from the same direction of traffic (so rest areas with a each direction separate would qualify for 2).
Must use in-state/in-commonwealth/in-province labor as I want to push the law all the way up to Fredericton and Halifax and down to Tallahassee and Boston, Harrisburg and Richmond in between, etc.

That's the crux of it. So hopefully if I can get it passed here, we can work on getting similar legislation in your state/province/commonwealth.

J1772L3 vs. CHAdeMO/TEPCO shouldn't be like Beta-max vs. VHS, it should be like DVD+R vs. DVD-R.

 

[Kataphn]

Too funny Boomer. The nurse is laughing!

 

[Boomer23]

Too funny Boomer. The nurse is laughing!

Somebody appreciates my jokes, finally! Thanks, Kat!

 

[tps]

It will be interesting to see what the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission does this next year. They are Planning to have charging stations installed at all turnpike service plazas by mid-2013. Each plaza is to get 2 DC quick chargers and 1 L2 station. The project is contracted out to "Car Charging Incorporated", headquartered in Miami. The Request for Proposals that preceeded the contract of course mentions the "upcoming" SAE quick charge connector as a requirement, but there's no mention of Chademo. I hope they put these dual connector chargers at the service plazas, so that the existing base of electric vehicles with QC ports can use them. Otherwise, they will be sitting there disused for a while...

Oh, this means I will need to carry yet a 4th RFID card to use all the chargers in the area... So I've applied for this card. I'm keeping all the various charging cards in the glove box. And I've sent a message to the Turnpike Commission asking about their Chademo plans as well as the rollout schedule. It will really suck if the LEAF can only use the L2 dock!

 

[NYLEAF]

I've had similar issues here in New York.

The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA) is currently accepting proposals under PON 2301 (see info: http://www.nyserda.ny.gov/en/Fundin...t-EVSE-Demonstration-and-Support-Program.aspx) for EVSE installations in the state, with up to $4.4 million of funding available, with a cap of $1 million per project, and up to 65% of costs covered per project. An earlier $4.4 million was already allotted, with 325 (or more) Level 2 EVSE's to be installed. (Press release: http://www.nyserda.ny.gov/About/New...f-325-Electric-Vehicle-Charging-Stations.aspx)

If you read through the application for PON 2301, you'll see that the program is geared primarily towards Level 2 EVSEs, but that Level 3 equipment would be considered, so long as it meets the SAE standard, and so long as there are cars on the road to use them. Obviously, this isn't possible. The only Quick Charge capable vehicles on the road, at least in New York (and probably the whole country, except for some Chevy Sparks that are testing in CA) are of the CHAdeMO standard.

I sent an email to one of the contacts listed on the PON 2301 application, and got a response that wasn't very favorable. Here's my email and NYSERDA's follow-up. (I've redacted my name for privacy.)

Hello Patrick,

I'm not sure if you're the right person to ask, but I was reading through the documents for PON 2301 and was wondering why there seems to be a prohibition on providing funds for CHAdeMO charging stations? I'm a Nissan Leaf owner on Long Island, and I am anxious to see Quick Chargers that my car can use pop up here in New York. I understand that the SAE has gone with a different charging standard, "Combo", but that standard seems to be in its infancy, with no production cars currently even expected to use it, except for (possibly) a Chevrolet product that will never be available in NY. Meanwhile, dozens of CHAdeMO stations have opened up across the country, and thousands of CHAdeMO capable cars have been sold, including many here in NY. The cost for these stations is continually dropping, with Nissan/Sumitomo Corp. offering stations for as little as $9,900 (http://www.nissanqc.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. The biggest hurdles for installing Quick Charge stations are the cost of running the high voltage power to the site and actually finding locations willing to allow a station to be installed. Identifying willing sites and installing CHAdeMO stations now would help overcome these issues sooner rather than later. In the future, these stations can be replaced or supplemented with SAE "Combo" capable stations, or stations that are capable of multiple charging standards. $1M in funding would allow at least 30 Quick Charge stations to be installed across the state, and would put New York on the forefront of the EV revolution. I sincerely hope NYSERDA reconsiders the prohibition on Level 3 CHAdeMO capable stations before all funds have been allotted.

Thank you for your time,

<NYLEAF>
<Long Island, NY>

A few days later, I got this response:

<NYLEAF>,



Thank you for your email. We have made a decision that we would prefer not to make an investment in a technology that is applicable to only a portion of the plug-in vehicles on the market. The intention is to make these charging technologies available to as many different models and number of vehicles as possible. The CHAdeMO standard is only available on two Japanese models. The SAE standard will be the standard for fast charging in the US for the vast majority of the manufacturers and I have to assume that the Japanese manufacturers will follow suit for the US market at some time. The US manufacturers do plan to provide vehicles utilizing this SAE standard in upcoming model years. While this does not help you right now, we do believe this approach will assist the greatest number of New Yorkers with plug-in vehicles in the future.



We will be starting another program for vehicle electrification later this year that will be more geared toward late stage demonstration of products or utilization of alternate products where a project with CHAdeMO may be applicable. Please continue to check our website for details.



Let me know if I can be of further assistance.



Patrick

Any recommendations on how to respond from this point? It seems that NY will be stuck with no QCs for quite a while...