EdmondLeaf
Well-known member
sorry to hear that, so looks like only two 2011 that we know have all 12 CB
EdmondLeaf said:sorry to hear that, so looks like only two 2011 that we know have all 12 CB
Interesting, I think charging habits are the biggest difference - what do you do for charge timers now? Looking at the chart above, you lost your 12th bar within a couple weeks of when I did (Sept 2013 or after 25 months of ownership), but you lost your 11th bar around June 2014 (about 9 months) but it took me until November 2014 to lose mine (about 14 months). And you lost your 10th bar after about another 10 months (April 2015) and I have yet to lose my 10th, but at least if the distance between bars lost remains the same as losing my 11th bar, I won't lose it until the end of the year. I'm losing bars almost 50% slower than you since the 12th which is a huge difference.gbshaun said:Until I lost the 11th Bar last year I was doing everything I understood to maximize battery life: Charged to 80% unless I needed 100%, used the timers to charge at night, starting at 1am, and not charging just the final one or two bars. Given this didn't seem to help (and with the lower capacity) I've since been charging mostly to 100%.
the only focus now is making damn sure my pack reaches 8 bars before the end of this year. All else is pretty much irrelevant at this point.
I knew I was forgetting somethingelectricfuture said:... loading your leaf up with sand bags ...
At least for the 2011/2012 packs, I think what does it is not primarily the high power levels themselves, but rather the resulting, additional battery heating. Long downhill runs with continuous regenerative braking also heat the battery significantly. This was my observation when I used our LEAF to commute down/up our mountain for almost 2 years, during which time our LEAF experienced the great majority of its observed capacity loss. (These days, our LEAF is used primarily for shorter drives, the most recent exception being a trip we took out to Joshua Tree National Park in February, and in our cool, shaded 6100' environment the capacity loss is pretty slow.)electricfuture said:I believe that elevation changes have a lot more to do with battery derogation especially when combined with high temperatures.
https://transportevolved.com/2015/04/14/staffcar-update-after-73100-miles-our-nissan-leaf-loses-its-second-capacity-bar/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;StaffCar Update: After 73,100 Miles, Our Nissan LEAF Loses its Second Capacity Bar
April 14, 2015 By Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield 7 Comments
Just over four years ago, a shiny red 2011 Nissan LEAF joined the Transport Evolved Staff car fleet as the Gordon-Bloomfield family’s daily driver. It quickly became known as Hiro...
the loss of Hiro’s first capacity bar at 52,800 miles...
Over the past winter however, we’ve certainly started to notice a drop in battery pack capacity and range in our aging plug-in and on Sunday, the inevitable happened: Hiro lost his second capacity bar. This indicates our main staff Nissan LEAF can now store less than 80 percent of the energy it could when new...
As for range anxiety? With more DC quick charging stations than ever before — at least twenty within easy reach of the Transport Evolved office and at least one DC quick charging station at every motorway service station on the M4 arterial motorway between Bristol and London, range anxiety is still a rarity...
I continued to do everything I knew (80%, not leaving fully charged, no quick charges etc) between my loss of the 12th and 11th bars, so I don't think our habits made the difference.drees said:.....you lost your 12th bar within a couple weeks of when I did (.. after 25 months of ownership), but you lost your 11th bar around June 2014 (about 9 months) but it took me until November 2014 to lose mine (about 14 months).
asimba2 said:I wish we could rename this thread "2011-2012 Early Capacity Losses" as it gives the impression this rate of degradation occurs with all Leafs, when the 2013+ seem to hold up much better. Has there been any confirmed cases of 2013+ cars that have lost a capacity bar?
I have a 2013 Leaf SV. Delivered 6/18/13. In late March of this year (2014), I noticed I have already lost one capacity bar at about 4000 total miles, approximately 200 hours of total operating time, only about 9 months old.
I am using the 120V Level 1 charger than came with the car; only charge to 80%. The Leaf is kept in the garage when not in operation. I live in the North Texas area.
Leaf Number: 411131
Garaged Location: Plano, Texas
Purchased New/Dealer - Courtesy Nissan
Ordered May 2, 2013
Production Month May 2013
Delivered/picked up: June 18, 2013
Mileage on delivery: 9
When lost 1st battery capacity bar:
approx 4000 miles
approx 200 operating hours
dhanson865 said:I'm sure if we had a 1 bar loser in 2014 we will have tons of 2013s losing bars this summer in 2015.
asimba2 said:it gives the impression this rate of degradation occurs with all Leafs, when the 2013+ seem to hold up much better
Thanks for the clarification.gbshaun said:I continued to do everything I knew (80%, not leaving fully charged, no quick charges etc) between my loss of the 12th and 11th bars, so I don't think our habits made the difference.drees said:.....you lost your 12th bar within a couple weeks of when I did (.. after 25 months of ownership), but you lost your 11th bar around June 2014 (about 9 months) but it took me until November 2014 to lose mine (about 14 months).
Indeed only AFTER losing the 11th bar did i start to not focus on those things so much. Because of the reduced capacity I've now HAD to charge to 100% more often. My degradation rate doesn't seem to be any worse.
But you experienced the same hot summer I did - I'm going with more freeway driving - nearly all my driving is surface or back roads at 40-55 mph - not much freeway driving, though lots of small elevation changes.gbshaun said:Curious what changed. I'm going with a hot summer.
My data. Received 6/11 San Diego Coastal:gbshaun said:FWIW In another thread, Opencar and I found we'd been mapping each other to a remarkable degree.
Opencar. Received 6/11 San Diego Coastal
1st bar lost at 27 months, 22K miles, Ahr=55.29
2nd bar lost at 37 months 33K miles, Ahr=51.54
3rd bar lost at 46 months, 41K miles, Ahr=47.47
GBShaun. Received 6/11 San Diego Coastal
1st bar lost at 26 months, 17k miles Ahr=55.50
2nd bar lost at 36 months, 25k miles Ahr=51.62
3rd bar lost at 45 months, 33k miles Ahr= 47.36
keydiver said:I don't think enough time has gone by or enough data has been collected yet to be able to say "much better". Personally, I think its just wishful thinking, and only the Leafs with the 2015 Lizard battery are going to see a marked improvement.
keydiver said:I don't think enough time has gone by or enough data has been collected yet to be able to say "much better". Personally, I think its just wishful thinking, and only the Leafs with the 2015 Lizard battery are going to see a marked improvement.
TomT said:Agreed. There were no chemistry or battery changes in the 2013 that would led to it being any better than a 2011 or 2012...
keydiver said:I don't think enough time has gone by or enough data has been collected yet to be able to say "much better". Personally, I think its just wishful thinking, and only the Leafs with the 2015 Lizard battery are going to see a marked improvement.
From here:QueenBee said:AFAIK there have been no formal releases from Nissan that say either way but the internal murmurs seem to be that there were modifications which are believed to be improvements.
That said, I don't believe battery changes always occur at changes in the model year. In other words, I don't think we can say that all MY2013 LEAFs use the same battery chemistry.RegGuheert said:Some notes on the 2013 battery:
- The module case was modifiied to reduce weight and materials used. They claimed a 30 kg weight reduction for the LEAF battery just from that change.
- The changes to the 2013 battery module chemistry were mainly intended to reduce cost. (There has been some mention of improvements in thermal capabilities, but the battery experts did not confirm that. They indicated there may be small changes in battery characteristics, but weight and cost were the two major changes.)
- The 2013 battery modules are compatible with the 2012/2012 LEAFs.
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