Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[DaveEV]

But I just checked it: SOC 79.9%, 6TBs, Temps: 86.2, 84.9, 83.4, 82.9 (yesterday was 104F, cooled overnight to only around 70F, already 75-80F now), 198 'Gids, 15.8kWh, 10.5V, 15-16mV spread, 55.11Ahr=83.18%.

Better check your 12V battery - if it's really 10.5V it's dead. Get it on a good charger, stat - maybe one of the CTEK units that Phil recommends.

 

[scottf200]

So who wants to go first with the software update?
Perhaps edatoakrun should do it since he is the most convinced that his capacity loss is very low. Ed?

It appears he has the very cool Turbo3 LEAF battery app so he knows.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=299510#p299510" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LBA - http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leaf_Battery_Application" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TomT]

I have an appointment for something else on the 13th ("wheel bearing" noise again) so if it is actually available then, I'll have them do it...

So who wants to go first with the software update?

 

[Weatherman]

Sloaty; he may not be doing worse. it could be the capacity bars disappearing early. noticing a small trend where cooler climates (Like Steve Marsh's bar disappearing at greater than 17.5% loss) bars stay longer and warmer climates, bars leave sooner. the fact that Weatherman's bar disappears as the heat of Summer is starting to crank up does not surprise me. We need to get a meter on his car ASAP to verify his capacity is as low as it "seems" to be.

another thing is the statement of his 80% charging all the time

Well, I am convinced the gauges are wonky, but that doesn't help much when I go from 100% charge to LBW at 51 miles. I took the car in yesterday for its annual battery check and got five stars across the board, so, at least I can prove that I'm not abusing my battery. I have been doing 80% charges, routinely, but have done the 100% charge rebalancing procedure every couple of months. The last one was on June 2nd, right before I lost the 12th bar.

I don't know of anyone, down here, with any type of battery capacity measuring device. Fact is, I've only seen two LEAFs on the road in the past 18 months (when the first of them started to be delivered). If I'm going to see what's going on, I'm, probably, going to have to build something myself.

I plan to get the software update as soon as possible after I get the card in the mail no matter what the outcome may be.

 

[LEAFfan]

Here is something that is bothering me - I am down to ~220 Gids on a charge. With the accepted threshold for bar loss being ~232 Gids, technically I should have lost a bar some time ago. Yet I still have all twelve. What is up with that?

First of all, I don't see where you believe that 232 Gids is the 'accepted' threshold for first bar loss. The % Gids is usually around 80-81%/225-227 Gids for first bar loss, not 83%/232 Gids. I've tested many cars and every one was around 80-81% Gids when they lost their first bar. Your car will lose one soon as yours is the first I've seen to be in the 70s % and still have all 12 CBs. So I'm going to call your car an 'Outlier'.

 

[vegastar]

I think mwalsh battery may be out of balance, 100% charges probably only go up to 91-92% SOC. 80% charges are better for capacity assessment as they always stop at true 80% SOC regardless of cell balancing.

 

[LEAFer]

But I just checked it: SOC 79.9%, 6TBs, Temps: 86.2, 84.9, 83.4, 82.9 (yesterday was 104F, cooled overnight to only around 70F, already 75-80F now), 198 'Gids, 15.8kWh, 10.5V, 15-16mV spread, 55.11Ahr=83.18%.

Better check your 12V battery - if it's really 10.5V it's dead. Get it on a good charger, stat - maybe one of the CTEK units that Phil recommends.

I know ... but I have almost never seen more than 12.0V except for a rare blip here and there while driving, end even then, never more than 13V. I did a 20 mile drive later this morning and it reported 11.9V after parking back home in the garage. Most of the time while driving it is spot-on 12.0V. My suspicion is ... the reading is inaccurate. The LEAF is not here right now ... after it cools a little (tomorrow or Monday) I'll use a voltmeter on it.

 

[xtremeflyer]

Mine is about same age and I can still can do 72 miles in mixed cycle on mostly flat terrain just after hitting LBW. Never needed to go farther on a single charge but I'm guessing 80 is not out of the question. 100 mile claim was a stretch, but doable still.

Bringing this discussion over here, even though I'm technically cross posting, because it didn't get any traction in the Battery Warranty thread. Hope nobody minds.

Here is something that is bothering me - I am down to ~220 Gids on a charge. With the accepted threshold for bar loss being ~232 Gids, technically I should have lost a bar some time ago. Yet I still have all twelve. What is up with that?

Another thing that bothers me is the similarity between my car and xtremeflyer's - our cars are more or less the same age (mine was delivered 5 months earlier); we're at the same mileage; we live in similar micro-climates (Garden Grove vs. Orange, unless he lives up in the hills?); and it looks like our commutes are similar and our cars sit in similar micro-climates while we work (I work in Hawthorne and I assume, if he's doing 10 miles more than me daily, he's up around there too?). So, theoretically speaking, our battery packs should be twins. Yet he's lost two bars already? It just doesn't make sense. Actually, I'd like to discuss any unknown differences between him and me. The only one that seems like it could possibly make a difference to the pack is parking - I let my car sit out at night, and I'm wondering if his might be garaged? Xtremeflyer?

Mike, you are correct, my commute is to El Segundo (LAAFB). My leaf is garages and my garage has a south facing metal door with no insulation. I do believe that is a big part of the issue, but in a town home community I can't park in the alley and I certainly wasn't going to pay to have a evse put in outside. I leased, so it just wasn't worth it. I believed Nissan in the fact that it should t be an issue. I am moving into a house next week and will probably work it so the outlet can be reached from the driveway.

 

[TomT]

Well, then, I am an outlier too as I lost my first bar at around 236 (with a balanced pack)... My 80% charge at the time was around 202... The first bar loss is supposed to be at 15% so your numbers don't seem to add up...

First of all, I don't see where you believe that 232 Gids is the 'accepted' threshold for first bar loss. The % Gids is usually around 80-81%/225-227 Gids for first bar loss, not 83%/232 Gids.

 

[DaveEV]

But I just checked it: SOC 79.9%, 6TBs, Temps: 86.2, 84.9, 83.4, 82.9 (yesterday was 104F, cooled overnight to only around 70F, already 75-80F now), 198 'Gids, 15.8kWh, 10.5V, 15-16mV spread, 55.11Ahr=83.18%.

Better check your 12V battery - if it's really 10.5V it's dead. Get it on a good charger, stat - maybe one of the CTEK units that Phil recommends.

I know ... but I have almost never seen more than 12.0V except for a rare blip here and there while driving, end even then, never more than 13V. I did a 20 mile drive later this morning and it reported 11.9V after parking back home in the garage. Most of the time while driving it is spot-on 12.0V. My suspicion is ... the reading is inaccurate. The LEAF is not here right now ... after it cools a little (tomorrow or Monday) I'll use a voltmeter on it.

Yep, that's most likely it. I checked my 12v readings with a VM and it was spot on without any calibration needed.

 

[LEAFfan]

Well, then, I am an outlier too as I lost my first bar at around 236 (with a balanced pack)... My 80% charge at the time was around 202... The first bar loss is supposed to be at 15% so your numbers don't seem to add up...

First of all, I don't see where you believe that 232 Gids is the 'accepted' threshold for first bar loss. The % Gids is usually around 80-81%/225-227 Gids for first bar loss, not 83%/232 Gids.

There's your keyword: 'supposed' to be 15%. None of the cars here (checked over a dozen) were at that threshold so it looks like just AZ and maybe other hot area LEAFs lose closer to 20% with the first bar loss. Everyone I talked to after their one bar loss, noticed about a 20% loss in range the same as mine.

 

[TomT]

That's close to what I experienced in range loss right after my second bar went away (about 23%).

Everyone I talked to after their one bar loss, noticed about a 20% loss in range the same as mine.

 

[dvlax40]

friday june 7th.... battery capacity 97.37%...


monday june 10th... battery capacity 96.42%....


yikes thats fast, almost 4 percent and the car is only a month old today.

in other news my battery temperature was finally below 95 today after 7 days. its a frosty 94

 

[RegGuheert]

The lowest high temperature in the Phoenix 10-day forecast is 106F. :shock:

 

[dvlax40]

The lowest high temperature in the Phoenix 10-day forecast is 106F. :shock:

I know, its hell... was out flying yesterday. couldn't get in soon enough once it started heating up, bumpy as all hell

 

[RickS]

Well, add me to the two bar looser list. Lost bar number two on Sunday at 22,827 miles, two years, one month and four days in.

Do I even bother calling Nissan?

 

[Volusiano]

Well, add me to the two bar looser list. Lost bar number two on Sunday at 22,827 miles, two years, one month and four days in.

Do I even bother calling Nissan?

It depends on whether you want to request a buyback from them or not. It seems like you need to lose at least 2 bars before they would consider giving you a buyback. But if you're serious about a buyback and the range no longer works for you and you're in AZ, I don't think it hurts to try. You'd have to be clear about your intent when you call in to Nissan that you're not just report a second bar loss, but that you're requesting a buyback.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Well, add me to the two bar looser list. Lost bar number two on Sunday at 22,827 miles, two years, one month and four days in.

Do I even bother calling Nissan?

Is there any chance that you can use the Android battery app and give us the amp/hour readout? It should be around 45-50.

 

[dvlax40]

Well, add me to the two bar looser list. Lost bar number two on Sunday at 22,827 miles, two years, one month and four days in.

Do I even bother calling Nissan?

Is there any chance that you can use the Android battery app and give us the amp/hour readout? It should be around 45-50.

RickS, if you want to meet up, i have the app and the scanner and can scan your car for you.

 

[RickS]

Yes I guess I should call, I had already asked for a buy back before. I'm over 2 years now, but I have proof I brought this up at around 12K when I lost the first bar. I'm home sick today with the flu so probably not much going to happen in the next day or two. I do have a CAN sniffer available at work, I just need to get the OBD2 plug and figure out how to use it, anyone know where to get one locally?

dvlax40, I may take you up on that offer in a couple days.