Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[davekern]

It gets really hot 2-3 weeks out of the year. After the first bar loss we left the car parked in the cool garage on really hot days. Luckily the leaf is an extra shared car in our family. Now it just a glorified golf cart since I can't make to and from any of my clients without range anxiety.

 

[cwerdna]

I have a hard time going 60 miles now. That going the speed limit or below (can be scary) and no ac or heat. Not very useful anymore. I now need an exit.

Sorry to hear that. Are you going to try to get Nissan to buy back your car?

Willing to buy a Rav4 EV instead? The big discounts make buying a it lot more tempting... the lease deals sound sucky though.

 

[davekern]

Yes to buyback and yes if I could get a deal on a rav4 ev. Still like the idea of ev, just not air cooled Nissan technology.

 

[DaveEV]

Well, lost my second capacity bar yesterday. Just 6 1/2 months after the first.

Sorry to hear that...

I don't think it's a coincidence that yesterday/today was the hottest day of the year so far and probably was in the 80s if you are a bit inland...

 

[cwerdna]

Yes to buyback and yes if I could get a deal on a rav4 ev. Still like the idea of ev, just not air cooled Nissan technology.

Hope it's ok to post Dianne's deal here: http://priuschat.com/threads/10-000-factory-cash-good-thur-march-4th-2013.122727/page-3#post-1751245" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I've never personally met her nor done business w/her but some Priuschatters have.

I'm hearing of an even better deal (if true) from somewhere at http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1762#p1762" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Yes to buyback and yes if I could get a deal on a rav4 ev. Still like the idea of ev, just not air cooled Nissan technology.

"that" might have helped had it been available. there is no cooling system whatsoever for the battery pack currently. Nissan is investigating forced chilled air as a possible option

 

[smkettner]

Yes to buyback and yes if I could get a deal on a rav4 ev. Still like the idea of ev, just not air cooled Nissan technology.

I hear ya. I am thinking to hold off as long as I can to evaluate how the others hold up. 60 miles would not put me down but less than 40 in a couple more years could be the end for me. Still waiting for that battery exchange price as that could be lower cost than trading.

All winter I have been charging to 100% with 6a end timer. Starting to see 6 battery temp bars so I am debating going back to 80%. Part of me thinks the 100% has no real effect when driven every morning. Might even be good for the battery.

I think we will have a big wave of lost bars this summer. Was hoping to lose just one per year. (knocks on wood)

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I got my LEAF way back when thinking I only needed 50 miles and currently about 75% of the time I only need 30-40 miles. But changing jobs and changing the role within that job has caused me to drive much more and now, I want all the range I can get.

I had to use the blast furnace once this week (170 mile RT) but was able to LEAF it twice over 80 miles (Thanks Fife QC!) and 3 times between 50-65 miles so 60 miles would be a hassle but really all depends on how public charging pans out.

Nissan is putting in QCs (hoping to get 4-10 from them) Ecotality is hoping to put in another 20 or so in Western WA and we still have some motivated Retailers who are interested as well including some big names like Walmart and Walgreens (of which we have hundreds of around here!)

now, Walgreens is working with SemaConnect with L2's (use them probably 1-3 times a month. with L2 unless its at my destination, it simply does not work with work...) but has contacted Ecotality about some fast chargers (which is really a MUCH better fit)

 

[cwerdna]

I got my LEAF way back when thinking I only needed 50 miles and currently about 75% of the time I only need 30-40 miles. But changing jobs and changing the role within that job has caused me to drive much more and now, I want all the range I can get.

Yeah, your issue can definitely be an adoption blocker those considering EVs. People can have unexpected job changes or are freelancers/contractors, jumping from place to place. The above combined w/me not working at the moment are the main reasons why I don't have a Leaf yet. And, if I have to move, I must live in/rent a house or from somewhere where I can charge.

I'm far from everything and some possible workplaces could be out of range for the Leaf for a round trip commute, esp. w/highway, heat, battery degradation, etc. And no, I'm not going to limit my job choices due to BEV range or to places that have workplace charging. Stopping somewhere to L2 or QC (we have very few here, so far) is not a good use of time for what would be an already long commute.

If the Rav4 EV had more reasonable lease prices... its range would be enough w/a 3 year lease. Companies beyond half its max range would be further than I'd want to drive for work anyway.

 

[RegGuheert]

Well, lost my second capacity bar yesterday. Just 6 1/2 months after the first. So, here we are 21 months out with 27k miles in moderate weather San Diego. I was going to update the Wiki database but someone did it for me last time and not sure how to do it...

I'm sorry to hear that, Dave! Some of us had predicted significant bar losses this spring, but my call was for it to begin in April, not the beginning of March and certainly not in San Diego.

The only good news in all this is the Nissan will repair/replace your battery under warranty if you can hold out for the fourth bar to drop. It sounds like you will hit that before five years and 60,000 miles. Unfortunately, it also sounds as if you drive quite a bit and the car no longer has the range you need.

 

[ttweed]

Well, lost my second capacity bar yesterday. Just 6 1/2 months after the first. So, here we are 21 months out with 27k miles in moderate weather San Diego.

Wow! This is bad news that I am having a hard time understanding and digesting. Your car and usage is almost exactly like ours except for the fact that we live by the coast (cooler microclimate) and did not charge to 100% as much as you did (I read an earlier post of yours in this thread when you reported the first bar loss where you said you charged to 100% every night from the beginning?)

We ordered on the same day as you but had delivery a month earlier, we have the same total mileage now (27K+) but we still have all 12 bars while you have lost 2. We have definitely lost range from new levels, but can still go 60 miles on a charge easily with 50/50 freeway and surface street driving when charged to 100%, while you say it is difficult to achieve that anymore. Was your car one of those that sat in Long Beach after the tsunami? I don't understand why the performance is so different...just a little more heat and more 100% charging shouldn't make such a radical difference, should it?

TT

 

[Volusiano]

Well, lost my second capacity bar yesterday. Just 6 1/2 months after the first. So, here we are 21 months out with 27k miles in moderate weather San Diego.

Wow! This is bad news that I am having a hard time understanding and digesting. Your car and usage is almost exactly like ours except for the fact that we live by the coast (cooler microclimate) and did not charge to 100% as much as you did (I read an earlier post of yours in this thread when you reported the first bar loss where you said you charged to 100% every night from the beginning?)

We ordered on the same day as you but had delivery a month earlier, we have the same total mileage now (27K+) but we still have all 12 bars while you have lost 2. We have definitely lost range from new levels, but can still go 60 miles on a charge easily with 50/50 freeway and surface street driving when charged to 100%, while you say it is difficult to achieve that anymore. Was your car one of those that sat in Long Beach after the tsunami? I don't understand why the performance is so different...just a little more heat and more 100% charging shouldn't make such a radical difference, should it?

TT

Thanks to Nissan's programming of the first 15% capacity on the first bar and 6.25% in subsequent bars, you may have as much as 14% capacity loss and still showing 12 bars. So you may only be 7% apart from Dave Kern's capacity, yet yours is still showing 12 bars and his is showing 10 bars. You never know, thanks to Nissan's confusing non-linear scaling of the capacity reading.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes to buyback and yes if I could get a deal on a rav4 ev. Still like the idea of ev, just not air cooled Nissan technology.

You can get a Rav4 EV. There are three dealers in San Diego selling them; Mossy, Carlsbad and Frank. The dealers known to have several in stock are all up in LA/OC; Tustin and Carson. If you buy by Monday, March 4, 2013, the deal is:

$49,800+$845 (destination charge) Options are floor mats and $200 for "blizzard pearl" paint
-$10K (Toyota cash for 0% / 60 month financing)
-$10K ($7500 fed tax credit and $2500 state rebate)
-$4000 (maximum known dealer discount)
=$26,645


plus typical $40-$80 doc fee, sales tax on the whole price minus dealer discount only, and DMV fees.

 

[davekern]

Good to know about the deals. I called around and can get the deal without the discount of $4k. Well, at least initially. I'll push and see what I can get. Thanks for the info!

 

[TomT]

Yep, I lost my second quite some time ago myself... It's one of the reasons why this is my first, only and last Leaf.

Well, lost my second capacity bar yesterday. Just 6 1/2 months after the first. So, here we are 21 months out with 27k miles in moderate weather San Diego.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Well, lost my second capacity bar yesterday. Just 6 1/2 months after the first. So, here we are 21 months out with 27k miles in moderate weather San Diego.

Wow! This is bad news that I am having a hard time understanding and digesting. Your car and usage is almost exactly like ours except for the fact that we live by the coast (cooler microclimate) and did not charge to 100% as much as you did (I read an earlier post of yours in this thread when you reported the first bar loss where you said you charged to 100% every night from the beginning?)

We ordered on the same day as you but had delivery a month earlier, we have the same total mileage now (27K+) but we still have all 12 bars while you have lost 2. We have definitely lost range from new levels, but can still go 60 miles on a charge easily with 50/50 freeway and surface street driving when charged to 100%, while you say it is difficult to achieve that anymore. Was your car one of those that sat in Long Beach after the tsunami? I don't understand why the performance is so different...just a little more heat and more 100% charging shouldn't make such a radical difference, should it?

TT

probably anecdotal at this point but Tom your LEAF has same mileage as mine and only slightly warmer climate in Summer than mine and up until about Summer of last year, i rarely did full charges either (too time consuming on fast charge!) but now, I fully charge at least 3-5 times a week. In Winter, I fully charge even when I dont expect to drive far just in case. QC is a great thing but only really is effective currently in 2 of the 4 directions I travel. the one direction is great for Seattle but not for Tacoma so need another closer which I hope Nissan will take care of. With a half dozen well placed QC's I could make 50 miles work well for me.

 

[JPWhite]

plus typical $40-$80 doc fee,

That's low!!

Dealers in TN like to tack on $199 doc fee. It is one reason why it can take me 3-4 hours to buy a car at the dealer, trying to get them to come off crazy fees and such.

 

[RickS]

Rick, do you have a meter (BCM or Gid)? If not, just let me know if you want a BC check.

I don't have one and I'd be curious where I'm at. I've had that scangauge plugged in to my car at least twice. A chance encounter recently with a local person who had a GID meter at a DCFC showed about 78% by the math, but this was hardly conclusive as a full charge reading. If you're up in the north valley area I wouldn't mind another reading.

 

[LEAFfan]

plus typical $40-$80 doc fee,

That's low!!

Dealers in TN like to tack on $199 doc fee. It is one reason why it can take me 3-4 hours to buy a car at the dealer, trying to get them to come off crazy fees and such.

That's low JP! Ours is $399! And it's not negotiable.

 

[surfingslovak]

probably anecdotal at this point but Tom your LEAF has same mileage as mine and only slightly warmer climate in Summer than mine and up until about Summer of last year, i rarely did full charges either (too time consuming on fast charge!)

The table Stoaty compiled on the Wiki has San Diego at a relative aging factor of 0.97 and Seatte at 0.69. That's a difference of 40%, and there are the effects of solar loading too. It's more than slightly warmer. While I can certainly understand that not everyone here is analytically or technically inclined, and there is a plethora of diverging opinions, it would be good if we refrained from seat-of-the-pants estimates. Several posters performed fairly extensive climatic modeling last year, which Stoaty documented in great detail on the Wiki. There is the aging model he compiled as well; it's the best information currently available.