Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[DaveEV]

Yeah, I think we have reason to be skeptical.

Yes - I do believe we all had our hopes up when Nissan took all those cars back for testing. Of course, nothing came of that, either.

In fact, my first thought was that Nissan was just going to announce the firmware upgrade to "fix" our instrumentation problem.

I'm still hoping that they do fix the firmware to fix the "intrumentation problem"! Here's some wishful thinking - maybe they will retrofit the battery % gauge into 2011-2012 cars... It really should be just a reflash away, but I'm sure that other logistical issues would prevent such an update.

My car is at 80% capacity in exactly two years and 18K miles. If the standard is 80% in 5 years, then I only got 40% of the years or 36% of the miles that Nissan suggested I would get, so Nissan ought to pay for 60-64% of a new battery.

With about $25K invested in the car at this point, how much more should I pay to get back, at best, three more years of usability?

If you need close to 80% to make your commute and keep your LEAF usable, it seems that a fresh pack 2.5 years would basically get your car performing to expectations in terms of capacity loss after 5 years.

This past summer has proven that the LEAF's battery cannot withstand 100+ degree summers, so I think that a buyback is the best solution for virtually all hot-climate LEAF owners.

Buyback or lease conversion is the way to go, then get the car into owners who don't need more than 40 miles of range.

Hope for a general solution has been the only thing keeping me from dumping my LEAF for whatever I can get for it and admitting that buying it was one of the poorest financial decisions I ever made.

I do think that should the general solution prove to not be favorable enough for owners like you, you should be prepared to get Nissan to buy back your LEAF under lemon-law terms as that should be better than selling the car yourself. Then perhaps buy or lease a Volt - you should be able to commute on electricity in the summer and a very small amount of gas in the winter and so far there have been no reports of any significant capacity loss on Volts.

 

[ALLWATZ]

Many of you will be pleasantly surprised with what Nissan will be doing in the area of LEAF customer satisfaction in 2013.

If they have a plan, why are they waiting until 2013? Trade in for a new 2013 model at a great price? They need to crank up the battery manufacturing in the U.S.? I remain skeptical until I hear something official. So far this is "vaporware".

Exactly. If they have a plan, that means they are willing to admit to some sort of defect, something that big corporations don't do. If they are going to admit to having a defect, why the delay? Just as many here are hopefully waiting for a "fix" from Nissan, is Nissan waiting for something (Mayan end of the world tomorrow or perhaps a new ice age so heat won't be an issue for their batteries). My guess is, no admission of defect, just a tweek to the warranty for only 2013 models as they are too invested in this battery's technology.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Many of you will be pleasantly surprised with what Nissan will be doing in the area of LEAF customer satisfaction in 2013.

so there is a chance that I will be driving Leaf again?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Many of you will be pleasantly surprised with what Nissan will be doing in the area of LEAF customer satisfaction in 2013.

so there is a chance that I will be driving Leaf again?

Sure, go out and lease one of those $200 / 24 month / $0 down deals right now. Easy.

I've recommended that to every buy-back LEAF owner. If you like the car, eliminate the risk by letting Nissan keep ownership (unless you drive too much for a 15,000 miles per year lease).

Just expect 20-30% range reduction at the end of 24 months and 30,000 miles. That will take you to Dec 2014, with a new 2015 model staring you in the face (with most probably the first "next" battery).

 

[TomT]

As long as you don't plan to go very far for very long, yes! :lol:

Many of you will be pleasantly surprised with what Nissan will be doing in the area of LEAF customer satisfaction in 2013.

so there is a chance that I will be driving Leaf again?

 

[kolmstead]

Thanks to the information folks have posted recently, and the encouraging PMs I've received, I called Nissan customer support and requested a buyback. Paul Smith was the CS guy; he was very friendly and cooperative. Supposed to hear something in 7-10 days, the standard response. As others have noted, our old case numbers have long since been closed out. Mine was from July 16 of this year. Got a new case number. Hopefully this will register my interest in whatever 'customer satisfaction' solution Nissan has in mind.

I'd strongly advise anyone with loss-of-range concerns to refresh their case numbers! The CS number is 877-664-2738.

In my case, the sticking point might be that I haven't taken the car back to the dealer and complained there. It's 84 miles, and my car ran out of juice 3 miles from the dealer last year when I drove it down for the annual battery usage report. After reading the trials and tribulations of folks like azdre in this thread, I knew that there was no point in hauling the car to Palmdale repeatedly and asking the dealer to fix the problem. Each trip would consume a day of my time and ten gallons of diesel fuel for my truck, not to mention lost wages.

So we think that Nissan's solution might be either a buyback, a pro-rated warranty on the battery, or conversion from purchase to lease? I hope it's a buyback; that would be the best deal for me. A lease would have to be short-term; I expect the car to be unusable next winter. And I can't see spending thousands on a new battery that will only give my car three more usable years.

My thanks to all who have contributed to this thread!

-Karl

 

[leafkabob]

In my case, the sticking point might be that I haven't taken the car back to the dealer and complained there.

It wasn't a factor in my case. I never took the car in to the dealer to complain.

 

[Volusiano]

So we think that Nissan's solution might be either a buyback, a pro-rated warranty on the battery, or conversion from purchase to lease? I hope it's a buyback; that would be the best deal for me. A lease would have to be short-term; I expect the car to be unusable next winter. And I can't see spending thousands on a new battery that will only give my car three more usable years.
-Karl

I really doubt that Nissan will offer a buyback, unless you force their hands and insist on a buyback and make a lot of noise. Beside, if that's really their proposed remedy of choice, why would they bother asking people like you and me to wait for a solution by January 2103 and not just proceed with a buyback like we asked for anyway?

The only 2 other sensible alternatives would be a conversion from purchase to lease, or some kind of a pro-rated battery warranty.

A pro-rated battery warranty has to make sense and be fair enough or else they would get no buy-in from anyone.

If after you have heard their proposed remedy and still don't like it, you can still continue to force their hands and pursue the buyback option under the lemon law instead, which will then become YOUR remedy of choice, not theirs.

 

[RWatkins]

Beside, if that's really their proposed remedy of choice, why would they bother asking people like you and me to wait for a solution by January 2103 and not just proceed with a buyback like we asked for anyway?
...

Because we'd all be dead by then. :mrgreen:

 

[RegGuheert]

Because we'd all be dead by then. :mrgreen:

:lol:

...and saying "...wait for a solution on December 22, 2012..." would have been too obvious!

 

[ALLWATZ]

Many of you will be pleasantly surprised with what Nissan will be doing in the area of LEAF customer satisfaction in 2013.

Found it, this is what OrientExpress is talking about, http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1081280_nissan-offers-almost-10k-cash-back-on-leaf-electric-cars?fbfanpage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Just more money off instead of admitting there is a problem.

 

[Volusiano]

Many of you will be pleasantly surprised with what Nissan will be doing in the area of LEAF customer satisfaction in 2013.

Found it, this is what OrientExpress is talking about, http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1081280_nissan-offers-almost-10k-cash-back-on-leaf-electric-cars?fbfanpage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Just more money off instead of admitting there is a problem.

Not sure if I agree this is the same thing. The link you showed is just a cash back sales incentive to move new cars faster. What we're talking about here is a proposed remedy for the battery capacity loss problem to hopefully replace the need for Nissan individual car buybacks.

 

[OrientExpress]

Year end close out offers are something else.

 

[JPWhite]

Year end close out offers are something else.

As a 2011 owner I am considering a 2012 year end close out deal.

Or would I be better off waiting for the 'remedy' in 2013?

Would buying a 2012 closeout reduce the benefit or availability of said 2013 remedy?

Here's the deal. I was pretty much set on trying to broker a year end close out on a 2012 LEAF and use the Federal tax credit to pay the lions share of my first year depreciation. But now this promise of a remedy has me wondering if I should trade my 2011 or not. December 2012 sales maybe 1 less than they could have been thanks to the FUD created by a Nissan promise. Come on guys just spill the beans already!!

 

[Herm]

Or would I be better off waiting for the 'remedy' in 2013?

What issue are you having that you need a remedy?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Or would I be better off waiting for the 'remedy' in 2013?

What issue are you having that you need a remedy?

Like is so many times the case, we take a sliver of hope and turn it into what we want to hear. Nissan is not going to "remedy" anything. They will (and have been) trying to mitigate the damage of putting out a substandard product (but, I think most of us would agree is better than no product!!!) that has upset a lot of owners / leasees who might not spend more of their money with Nissan. That's bad for them, when you have dozens of other manufacturers around the world to throw money at.

The biggest problem to me is the Nissan Bullshit(TM). They obviously know the issues, but the bullshit keeps flowing (although much slower than a few months ago).

 

[surfingslovak]

The biggest problem to me is the Nissan Bullshit(TM). They obviously know the issues, but the bullshit keeps flowing (although much slower than a few months ago).

LOL Tony, made my day.

 

[Stoaty]

The biggest problem to me is the Nissan Bullshit(TM). They obviously know the issues, but the bullshit keeps flowing (although much slower than a few months ago).

Tony, is it you or Nissan that has the trademark on that phrase? :lol: Thanks for a good laugh.

 

[vrwl]

I think he just needs to change his forum name to "Trademark Tony" :lol:

 

[jspearman]

I agree with Tony. I feel like Charlie Brown right now and Nissan is Lucy.

I was also one of the folks who was asked to wait a few weeks to see what miracles Nissan would perform in January. I don't really believe them, and I think they are just buying some time, but I keep the fire of an irrational hope burning. I really just want to be done with the problem, but hate the idea of going through the car buying process again. None of the options are terribly attractive except Tesla where no dealers are involved or if Nissan wanted to give me an Infiniti EV beta car.