Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[rickbecker]

It'd be so much easier if there were more charging options or heaven forbid an interface option that let you type in a number from 42-99%. Or even a up arrow/down arrow interface that starts at 80% and allows you to increment by 5% within the range of 45% to 95%.

+1

 

[azdre]

[...]
For an updated list of affected owners, as reported to members of this thread, see the wiki:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery,_Charging_System#Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hello azdre:

I tried clicking on that link and it appears to be sort of updated/broken. It did not take me to a list of owners or discussion of battery capacity loss. It's sort of in and around batteries and I think the info might be there somewhere, but I'm not sure where. [quick edit a few minutes later]... ok, I think I see something like it here, though I"m not sure about a list of owners.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I fixed the link and added a link to the alternate summary posted on the 'page 2 thread'.

 

[pchilds]

If you want other than 100% or 80% it is not that hard. When you park before shutting down the LEAF, I set the timer for 1 hour less than the L2 80% or 100% charge time and you will have 70% or 90%. You have ten minute increments so you should be able to hit any percent you want with a few tries.

 

[thankyouOB]

If you want other than 100% or 80% it is not that hard. When you park before shutting down the LEAF, I set the timer for 1 hour less than the L2 80% or 100% charge time and you will have 70% or 90%. You have ten minute increments so you should be able to hit any percent you want with a few tries.

smartie pants. good idea.
i was doing it by abstaction, adding a bar for every 25 minutes/half hour of charging, aiming for 8 bars most of the time.

I wish I had a STOP button on the iPhone app, so i can shut down charging for an away game. the blink lets me do that at home.

 

[mksE55]

1 yr service check 10 months, 11950 miles. lost 1 bar, battery check shows 1 missing and got All 5 stars. service advisor didnt say anything about it when I asked. Peltier Nissan in Tyler was very nice. no charge for test. 16.00 tire rotation. I did get acopy of the test and it has info on gradual loss of capacity is normal. blah blah blah. Will be based on driving, charging and environmental conditions. the only weird thing is I gave them my car with 2 bars showing, they gave me the test sheet which shows it fully charged picture with all bars and Charge bars full, and 82 list in the mileage, yet I had to wait another 2 hrs for it to fully charge before I could get home. Maybe this is a default picture.

 

[abasile]

Wow, you're in Coastal San Diego and you lost a bar? That's a whole different angle than living in Phoenix

I work near Miramar, and it gets pretty hot there during the day sometimes. Although the car never sat in that heat at 100% charge. Usually near 50% by the time I get to work. Plus, over 26K miles....that's a fair amount.

Jimmy, how deeply do you discharge the battery on your commute each day? Do you routinely get the "low battery" warning or the "very low battery" warning?

 

[vrwl]

1 yr service check 10 months, 11950 miles. lost 1 bar, battery check shows 1 missing and got All 5 stars. service advisor didnt say anything about it when I asked. Peltier Nissan in Tyler was very nice. no charge for test. 16.00 tire rotation. I did get acopy of the test and it has info on gradual loss of capacity is normal. blah blah blah. Will be based on driving, charging and environmental conditions. the only weird thing is I gave them my car with 2 bars showing, they gave me the test sheet which shows it fully charged picture with all bars and Charge bars full, and 82 list in the mileage, yet I had to wait another 2 hrs for it to fully charge before I could get home. Maybe this is a default picture.

Wow, so the test sheet lied about your car's current SOC at the time you brought it in?

 

[grommet]

Wow, so the test sheet lied about your car's current SOC at the time you brought it in?

Uh, the annual "battery information sheet" has an illustration of a LEAF battery status gauge on the left... showing you where the capacity is reported in your car. It's an illustration like in your owner's guide. Everyone will see the same picture with the same GOM of 82 miles on a 100% charge.

 

[Stoaty]

That's only true if you are awake to stop the charging. If I want to charge while I'm asleep and stop at something other than 80% or 100% the current options won't do that. You can play guessing games and tell it to charge with a timer to start late enough that it won't be charged to 100% by the time you wake up but if you guess wrong and start too late you may not have enough charge and if you guess wrong and start charging too soon you will hit 100% charge before you wake up.

If you have a Gid Meter, all you have to do is charge 10 minutes on L2 for every 3% increase in Gids that is desired. Works very well between 30% and 80% (only range I have tested it in). I can hit a desired percentage Gids within 2%, often less.

 

[Jimmydreams]

Jimmy, how deeply do you discharge the battery on your commute each day? Do you routinely get the "low battery" warning or the "very low battery" warning?

LBW very rarely. I can't remember the last time I hit VLB. I drive very conservatively: 65mph max, A/C on (low fan). I'll go as slow as 55mph if I think I need to save the electrons. CC always on the highway, ECO mode on side streets It's about 61.5 miles round-trip and I usually arrive with at least 1 or 2 bars left, no LBW.

I didn't expect to see a battery bar lost already, but I'm still happy with the range. Let's see if I feel the same way when it starts getting cooler!!!!

 

[Stoaty]

LBW very rarely. I can't remember the last time I hit VLB. I drive very conservatively: 65mph max, A/C on (low fan). I'll go as slow as 55mph if I think I need to save the electrons. CC always on the highway, ECO mode on side streets It's about 61.5 miles round-trip and I usually arrive with at least 1 or 2 bars left, no LBW.

How long does your Leaf typically sit at 100% charge at night before you start your commute in the AM? Do you keep the Leaf charged to 100% on weekends and sitting at high SOC for significant periods of time?

 

[TonyWilliams]

3 bar loser - Jul 7, 2012 - Scott Yarosh - Phoenix, AZ - 25870 miles

Based on date, lots of miles driven monthly, and brutal desert heat since July 7, Scott should be our first 4 bar loser any day.

Maybe we should make an award ?

 

[jlsoaz]

jlsoaz, the wiki is in a constant state of modification as new information continues to roll in about the car. RIGHT NOW, you can find the list of owners and the battery capacity loss information at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can also find more info about it at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, but the table with the data is at the first link I gave above.

Hi VRWL:

Thanks for this info.

 

[DaveEV]

Jimmy, how deeply do you discharge the battery on your commute each day? Do you routinely get the "low battery" warning or the "very low battery" warning?

LBW very rarely. I can't remember the last time I hit VLB. I drive very conservatively: 65mph max, A/C on (low fan). I'll go as slow as 55mph if I think I need to save the electrons. CC always on the highway, ECO mode on side streets It's about 61.5 miles round-trip and I usually arrive with at least 1 or 2 bars left, no LBW.

I didn't expect to see a battery bar lost already, but I'm still happy with the range. Let's see if I feel the same way when it starts getting cooler!!!!

How much range do you feel that you've lost compared to last year at this time? Have you had all the software/firmware updates?

 

[Herm]

Based on date, lots of miles driven monthly, and brutal desert heat since July 7, Scott should be our first 4 bar loser any day.

At some point the usability of the car will be impaired and it will sit in the garage.. at that point the leveling-off battery degradation rate that Nissan mentioned will show up.

 

[jspearman]

Based on date, lots of miles driven monthly, and brutal desert heat since July 7, Scott should be our first 4 bar loser any day.

At some point the usability of the car will be impaired and it will sit in the garage.. at that point the leveling-off battery degradation rate that Nissan mentioned will show up.

+1

I've been wondering when to expect that, and now I know!

 

[ecoobsessive]

the leveling-off battery degradation rate that Nissan mentioned will show up.

Do we have any data or evidence, even anecdotal that the "leveling off" will not occur soon? What do the curves look like - steep at first? More steep and deep for high temp cars, but those may still level off. Is it unreasonable to think that even though I appear to have lost 15% , I may only lose 2-3% more in the next year - what are the chances of that? Does anyone have a graph of capacity loss over time that could help to predict future capacity?

 

[aqn]

FYI, for those keeping score at home (and on the wiki): I lost my first battery capacity bar yesterday.

 

[spooka]

I have lost 2 bars, living in Phoenix:

Car has always been stored in garage. Sits in a parking lot for 8 hours during the day 3 days a week on average.

Bar 1 On or around Aug 1, 2012. Took possession of the car July 15th, 2011. (1 yr) 12,500 miles. 1 QC, all others L2 charging to 100%. VIN 004917.
Bar 2 August 26, 2012 (today!). (1yr, 1mo) 13,365 miles. 1 more QC. Only 1 month and 865 miles between bar loss

Not reported to Nissan. Will report this week.

Manufacturer date 05/11

 

[Stoaty]

Do we have any data or evidence, even anecdotal that the "leveling off" will not occur soon? What do the curves look like - steep at first? More steep and deep for high temp cars, but those may still level off. Is it unreasonable to think that even though I appear to have lost 15% , I may only lose 2-3% more in the next year - what are the chances of that? Does anyone have a graph of capacity loss over time that could help to predict future capacity?

See Wiki:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Analysis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note that for the two bar losers, the rate of capacity loss increased from about 1.3% per month (over time to loss of first bar) to 3.7% per month (over time between first and second bar loss).

"While exposure to high ambient temperatures over time is thought to be the predominant factor in capacity bar loss, an analysis by Stoaty of the 26 reported cases in the Phoenix metro area showed that there was a moderate correlation between miles driven per month and the rate of battery capacity loss. The correlation coefficient was 0.51 and linear regression suggested that those who drove 1800 miles per month had a 2% per month capacity loss compared to 1% per month for those who drove 900 miles per month. The mean time to lose one capacity bar was 11.9 months, with a range of 7-16 months. [Remember that this only applies to Phoenix owners who have lost a capacity bar, not the general population of Leafs.] The analysis suggests that something related to charging and discharging the battery (leaving Leaf at high state of charge, high depth of discharge, number of battery charge cycles,etc.) is an additional factor affecting battery capacity loss. A similar analysis of Texas Leafs that had lost one capacity bar did not show any correlation between monthly mileage and rate of capacity loss, but the sample was much smaller (12 Leafs) and the climatic variation between different areas may have dominated. Phoenix Leafs that had lost a bar showed a mean rate of capacity loss of 1.3% per month; for Texas Leafs the value was 1.2% per month.

An analysis of the available data for all Leafs that had lost a second bar showed that the mean time between losing bars one and two was 52.7 days. The average rate of capacity loss between bars one and two was 3.7% per month (but note that most of these losses were during a hot summer, so do not extrapolate these loss rates to other areas of the country or other times of year). There was no correlation between mileage and rate of capacity loss between bars one and two."