LEAF Owner's Manual, page EV-21: "If vehicle will not be used for long period of time:..."TRONZ said:
Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs
- Thread starter azdre
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Stoaty
Well-known member
If vehicle will not be used for long period of time:aqn said:
— NISSAN recommends charging with long life mode.
— Charge once every 3 months.
I would consider 40%-60% SOC to be ideal (and what I practice).
DurkaDurka
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2011
- Messages
- 100
There is no problem charging to 100% as long as it's not kept at that SOC for long (my post alluded to this based on how I charge my car).
If you need the range, set up the "END" timer to right when you are going to leave in the morning - I doubt having the battery at > 80% for a couple hours will degrade it. There are a number of posts here from folks who charge to 100% every day with quite a number of miles stating they do not perceive battery loss. I don't actually know what happens if you set a "START" and "END" timer. I imagine setting a "START" time would have it start at that time and not allow it to charge past the "END" timer. This is not preferable since it leaves the car at a higher SOC for a longer perioid of time - I think Nissan should discourage it in the manual.
Despite all of that, I won't be charging my car over 80% unless I have a planned need for it (and I time the charge).
If you need the range, set up the "END" timer to right when you are going to leave in the morning - I doubt having the battery at > 80% for a couple hours will degrade it. There are a number of posts here from folks who charge to 100% every day with quite a number of miles stating they do not perceive battery loss. I don't actually know what happens if you set a "START" and "END" timer. I imagine setting a "START" time would have it start at that time and not allow it to charge past the "END" timer. This is not preferable since it leaves the car at a higher SOC for a longer perioid of time - I think Nissan should discourage it in the manual.
Despite all of that, I won't be charging my car over 80% unless I have a planned need for it (and I time the charge).
aqn said:
LEAFfan
Well-known member
bturner said:
How long do you leave it at 100%? Do you 'top off' when there are 11 or 12 bars? Do you leave it in a hot parking lot all day uncovered?
Herm
Well-known member
LEAFfan said:
I dont think that would make any difference, the battery is not inside the car on the dash.. its under the car and cools thru heat conduction to the metal chassis of the car.
JPWhite
Well-known member
I would be interested to learn what temperature the body panels get to in Pheonix in direct sunlight on hot days. The LEAF body repair manual allows for up to 140 degrees F measured at the rocker panel. I imagine the metal body panels could get quite toasty and approach these type of temperatures. If this were to occur the battery temp gauge would no doubt go into the red zone.
Thanks for the interest:
Charging Routine : I have my Blink set to start charging at midnight. I leave for work at 6:30am. Typical charging ends around 3-4am.
Parking : My car is garaged at home, and parked under covered parking during the day while at work.
Temperature : I have never seen the temp gage move off of the mid point. Body panels get quite hot in Phoenix, however mine is Perl White, which minimizes that effect.
Regards,
Brett
Charging Routine : I have my Blink set to start charging at midnight. I leave for work at 6:30am. Typical charging ends around 3-4am.
Parking : My car is garaged at home, and parked under covered parking during the day while at work.
Temperature : I have never seen the temp gage move off of the mid point. Body panels get quite hot in Phoenix, however mine is Perl White, which minimizes that effect.
Regards,
Brett
kmp647
Well-known member
both in the same state, both use blink timer
both lost capacity
my advice: turn off the Blink timer
use the car timer, set end time only very close to departure time
use 80% when possible especially in summer heat
both lost capacity
my advice: turn off the Blink timer
use the car timer, set end time only very close to departure time
use 80% when possible especially in summer heat
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
bturner said:
what is your roundtrip distance?
JPWhite
Well-known member
bturner said:
You seem to have taken reasonable precautions to prevent the vehicle sitting at high charge level for extended periods of time by using a timer (I think either Blink or vehicle timer should be fine - delay of charge is the key factor). Parking in shade and the temp gauge staying in the middle position seems like everything is A OK. This leads me to conclude something is wrong with your specific vehicle for this level of degradation to be be indicated on the dash.
Stanton
Well-known member
This thread is getting interesting; looks like the "always charge to 100%" folks are seeing some negative effects. I haven't hit a year yet, but I stand by my charging routine:
1) Use a weekday "end only" timer @80% to finish a couple of hours before I leave in the morning; that way the battery cools down after use (previous evening) and cools down a bit before leaving (without too much soak time) in the morning. Exception: one 100% day (for a long lunch) during the week
2) When necessary, always use a timer over-ride 100% charge on the weekend right before using; sometimes I'll need a couple of these (busy weekend), sometimes I won't charge at all (in which case the car sits around 50-75% SOC).
So far, so good (no noticeable range reduction on long trips).
1) Use a weekday "end only" timer @80% to finish a couple of hours before I leave in the morning; that way the battery cools down after use (previous evening) and cools down a bit before leaving (without too much soak time) in the morning. Exception: one 100% day (for a long lunch) during the week
2) When necessary, always use a timer over-ride 100% charge on the weekend right before using; sometimes I'll need a couple of these (busy weekend), sometimes I won't charge at all (in which case the car sits around 50-75% SOC).
So far, so good (no noticeable range reduction on long trips).
Heat is a problem for batteries. Your charging routine may help but it won't make your battery last the same way as living in Seattle would. One sobering thought is that the Volt is expected to have 20% less life in Arizona and its eternally charged to 80% and has a thermal management system for the battery.Stanton said:
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
SanDust said:
Where did you get this tidbit?
GaslessInSeattle
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 6, 2011
- Messages
- 1,566
I'm really wishing I had something other than an 80% vs 100% option, having to adjust charging time to hit say 50% sounds like a PITA. I'm also leary of using just an end timer. this thread has us all focusing on avoiding 100% or even 80% for long periods but from what I understand it's also not good to leave the car at the other end, say closer to 2 bars. What we need is two settings, one that brings the battery up to 50% initially whenever plugged in and then an end timer for 80% or 100%.
The vast majority of our driving can be done with a 50% charge and as soon as QC's are available, we'll be able to "top off" a lot less, no longer being compelled to charge whenever we can on the off hand chance that we may need to do something unplanned. Over charging is basically caused by precaution due to how slow L2 is, once we have L3, it's going to take the pressure off opportunity charging quite a bit, allowing us to relax more and top off less.
It's very interesting to me how critical I now see the Quick Charging network in terms of battery management. Initially I was concerned about how hard it would be on the battery now I see it as a way to preserve the battery by avoiding unnecessary overcharging... kind of ironic!
The vast majority of our driving can be done with a 50% charge and as soon as QC's are available, we'll be able to "top off" a lot less, no longer being compelled to charge whenever we can on the off hand chance that we may need to do something unplanned. Over charging is basically caused by precaution due to how slow L2 is, once we have L3, it's going to take the pressure off opportunity charging quite a bit, allowing us to relax more and top off less.
It's very interesting to me how critical I now see the Quick Charging network in terms of battery management. Initially I was concerned about how hard it would be on the battery now I see it as a way to preserve the battery by avoiding unnecessary overcharging... kind of ironic!
davewill
Well-known member
I don't think that anyone has suggested that 80% is any kind of problem. Even Nissan specifically calls that "long-life mode" and recommends that charge level for storage. What's wrong with the end timer? The only complaint I've heard of is that it's kind of conservative and tends to finish up to a couple of hours early...not a problem for this purpose.GaslessInSeattle said:
smkettner
Well-known member
My problem with end timer is that I only get 6 hours of TOU. On a long charge Leaf will start before the window and finish way early. I could set it a bit later but then a short charge may also fall outside the low rate window. I want an end timer that also has a setting not to charge before a set time.
Actually my driving is less lately now that I have some business completed and I might go back to end timer and let it charge as it must.
I would also like an automatic 2 hour immediate charge if I plug in with 2 bars or less.
I would also like different timer settings for away from home.
Actually my driving is less lately now that I have some business completed and I might go back to end timer and let it charge as it must.
I would also like an automatic 2 hour immediate charge if I plug in with 2 bars or less.
I would also like different timer settings for away from home.
davewill
Well-known member
But in that case, you shouldn't really need the end timer to keep you from being at 100% too long because a timer set for your TOU window should accomplish that well enough.smkettner said:
Stoaty
Well-known member
I am experimenting with using my GID-o-meter and setting start and stop times. I decide what my percent SOC target is, subtract the current SOC, and use my rough rule of thumb of 18% increase in SOC per hour of L2 charging. Came out right on the mark this AM when I decided to charge to 75% instead of 80%. I will probably bump it down a bit more.GaslessInSeattle said:
ztanos
Well-known member
Nissan should make it customizable to whatever % the driver needs. I would need more than 80% for my drive, daily, but I would need less than 100%. let me charge to 90.
GaslessInSeattle
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 6, 2011
- Messages
- 1,566
It's hard to quantify but from what I understand, letting the car sit at a low SOC influences battery life too, which is what the end timer would lead to if the car came home with a lowish battery. as for 80%, I'm finding that I rarely need that much, I could get by on 50% much of the time. Nissan's idea of long life and what the battery is actually capable of may be two very different things as well. from what I've read, 50% is more ideal, I don't mind babying the battery if my needs allow.
It's hard to know with the different chemistry's if the things I've read about other Li-ion batteries applies to the Leaf but it appears that if you stick closer to 50%, they can approach lossless capacity. Time has an effect, but the effect of time is relative to SOC.
The presumption I will go on till we have more information is Battery life = some multiple of the distance from 50%, minus time... the sweet spot is in the middle.
One thing is for sure, I'll be plugging my car in less often, avoiding the extremes and QCing more often to avoid having to leave the car at a high SOC as much.
It's hard to know with the different chemistry's if the things I've read about other Li-ion batteries applies to the Leaf but it appears that if you stick closer to 50%, they can approach lossless capacity. Time has an effect, but the effect of time is relative to SOC.
The presumption I will go on till we have more information is Battery life = some multiple of the distance from 50%, minus time... the sweet spot is in the middle.
One thing is for sure, I'll be plugging my car in less often, avoiding the extremes and QCing more often to avoid having to leave the car at a high SOC as much.
davewill said:
Similar threads
