Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[dgpcolorado]

P3227 update?

I bought a used Leaf, would I be able to call and get that info or do I have to show up at a dealer to let them check the car?

I've tried looking on the Nissan website but there doesn't seem to be a way to get info on the car other than what carwings does.

I'm only down 1 bar so I'm not terribly worried about capacity but it'd be good to know what I have.

So far as I am aware, it would take a dealer looking up your car by VIN to see if that update has been done. It is supposed to (among other things) make the capacity measurements more accurate, which makes comparisons of capacity loss more relevant here. For many (most?) of us it has the side effect of lowering regen levels, especially in cool weather. It also was reported to fix the bug in the on-board charger (OBC) that causes severe problems with certain EVSEs, notably the GE Wattstation.

If you don't expect to need the battery capacity warranty because you won't drop four capacity bars in five years/60k miles, you could skip the update (or try, the dealer may do it without asking). And, perhaps, keep your regen higher as the battery ages. But fixing that OBC bug is a concern.

 

[TimLee]

...
If you don't expect to need the battery capacity warranty because you won't drop four capacity bars in five years/60k miles, you could skip the update (or try, the dealer may do it without asking). And, perhaps, keep your regen higher as the battery ages. But fixing that OBC bug is a concern.

^^^^ Very good summary.
If the P3227 has not been done, it will show up on the Service Comm screen for the VIN #.
Dealer might be willing to check that for you with just a telephone call or email.

I have avoided it so far.
But specifically asked dealer not to do it.
Their default action will be to do it.
It is no charge to the customer.

The erroneous LEAF behaviour without it with some EVSE or under some circumstances (such as loss of power to the EVSE and then it being restored, where the faulty Nissan software lets the EVSE fry the on board charger) is a concern.

Also if you would qualify for capacity warranty replacement, the battery data takes 107 days to return to normal after P3227.
How Nissan would handle four bar loss reported pre P3227 near the warranty time or miles deadline is a bit unclear.
Could be a difficulty.

 

[mwalsh]

How Nissan would handle four bar loss reported pre P3227 near the warranty time or miles deadline is a bit unclear.
Could be a difficulty.

I remember one report of somebody having the update done in conjunction with an inspection for battery warranty replacement. He didn't get a capacity bar back after the update and, or so I remember, did qualify for pack replacement.

But that would be a huge gamble in my eyes, which is why I decided to have the update done at the start of this year - to let my pack "normalize" well in advance of potentially having to make a warranty claim.

 

[TimLee]

...
But that would be a huge gamble in my eyes, which is why I decided to have the update done at the start of this year - to let my pack "normalize" well in advance of potentially having to make a warranty claim.

I agree Mike in situation where it is likely you will qualify.

In my situation with only two bars gone, and 50 weeks left, my chances aren't good.
So chose to not take the regen loss.

 

[abasile]

My hypothesis is that since all my driving involves steep climbs and descents, and the associated battery heating that entails, I get more degradation than one gets driving on relatively level terrain.

Having recently lost the second capacity bar, I'm strongly inclined to agree that this additional battery heating is a significant factor for those of us in the mountains. With the early LEAF battery chemistry, it seems quite likely that the resulting heat is a larger factor in degradation than the actual charge/discharge cycles. My hope is that, if the 2015+ "lizard" battery performs as expected, those in cool climates with frequent, high-current battery usage will see benefits. This includes those who frequently utilize QC.

 

[DaveInAvl]

My hypothesis is that since all my driving involves steep climbs and descents, and the associated battery heating that entails, I get more degradation than one gets driving on relatively level terrain.

Thanks for mentioning this. My '14 seems to be down farther than the model predicts - roughly 12.5% compared to 10% - and Asheville's hills could account for that.

 

[HighDesertDriver]

Just another "club member" as local temperatures head up to the 100F's...

We lost our 4th capacity bar yesterday morning, 12 June 2015. Our dealer had a maintenance slot and personnel to take a look, confirmed the loss and got authorization to order the parts. We'll know next week when the parts will be in, and we have the car back to drive until everything arrives. Here's the car's Leaf DD details:

Date: 12 Jun 2015
Miles: 55,175
Gids: 176
Temp: 81.6F

Charge: 91.1600%
AmpHours: 43.2369
Health: 44.81
Volts: 393.0

We'll be quite thrilled to have full capacity back and perhaps have less loss here in the northern region of Los Angeles county. The real "disappointment" is that the dealer no longer does complimetary washes after maintenance -- their part of drought water conservation -- but we'll learn to live with it.

 

[dhanson865]

Just another "club member" as local temperatures head up to the 100F's...

We lost our 4th capacity bar yesterday morning, 12 June 2015. Our dealer had a maintenance slot and personnel to take a look, confirmed the loss and got authorization to order the parts. We'll know next week when the parts will be in, and we have the car back to drive until everything arrives. Here's the car's Leaf DD details:

Date: 12 Jun 2015
Miles: 55,175
Gids: 176
Temp: 81.6F

Charge: 91.1600%
AmpHours: 43.2369
Health: 44.81
Volts: 393.0

We'll be quite thrilled to have full capacity back and perhaps have less loss here in the northern region of Los Angeles county. The real "disappointment" is that the dealer no longer does complimentary washes after maintenance -- their part of drought water conservation -- but we'll learn to live with it.

Congrats on the fresh battery pack, should be a 2015 style pack in a 2011 body, quite the upgrade in range (from degraded to new again).

At this rate we'll have more 4 bar losers in the wiki than 3 bar losers. Seems like most of the 4 bar losers aren't in for bar 3, 2, or 1.

 

[occ]

Another one here in Southern CA (Tustin). We considered our location kinda coastal, so it's generally cooler, but Tustin does get warmer than the surrounding more well known towns and cities like Irvine, Newport Beach, etc....but I don't think it's as warm as Palmdale.

We're about 2 days away from owning our 2011 for four years. We only charged 15 QCs, and generally baby the battery the first couple of years. However, the last year and a half we had to charge to 100% to get the range to be comfortable in our daily drives (although we didn't have to for daily commute).

Lost bars:
Purchased
17 Jun 2011
1 - 02 May 2013 (+/- a week) 18,281
2 - 25 Aug 2013 (+/- a week) 20,529 - P3227
3 - 05 Oct 2014 28,480
4 - 14 Jun 2015 33,370


How do you update the wiki list?


Date: 14 Jun 2015
Miles: 33,370
Gids: 178
Temp: 78.1 to 79.9 F

Charge: 92%
AmpHours: 43.43
Health: 45.12
Volts:
Volts (cell): 4.032 to 4.049

Just another "club member" as local temperatures head up to the 100F's...

We lost our 4th capacity bar yesterday morning, 12 June 2015. Our dealer had a maintenance slot and personnel to take a look, confirmed the loss and got authorization to order the parts. We'll know next week when the parts will be in, and we have the car back to drive until everything arrives. Here's the car's Leaf DD details:
...
)

 

[leafwing]

My car lost its fourth bar @ 37.7K last week. The loss is consistent with previous years.
Has anyone in Texas replaced a degraded pack?

 

[HighDesertDriver]

How do you update the wiki list?

Just another "club member" as local temperatures head up to the 100F's...

We lost our 4th capacity bar yesterday morning, 12 June 2015. Our dealer had a maintenance slot and personnel to take a look, confirmed the loss and got authorization to order the parts. We'll know next week when the parts will be in, and we have the car back to drive until everything arrives. Here's the car's Leaf DD details:
...
)

dhanson865 PMed me some instructions on updating the Wiki, but I haven't tried them yet. I'll forward them to you. Good luck!

 

[jhm614]

My car lost its fourth bar @ 37.7K last week. The loss is consistent with previous years.
Has anyone in Texas replaced a degraded pack?

Yes, I did and I'm pretty sure there have been some others. First stop is probably the dealer. And, if they seem shaky, maybe open a case with Nissan Corporate EV Customer Support : (877) NO GAS EV (or 877-664-2738)

What was your mileage at 4BL?

 

[leafwing]

My car lost its fourth bar @ 37.7K last week. The loss is consistent with previous years.
Has anyone in Texas replaced a degraded pack?

Yes, I did and I'm pretty sure there have been some others. First stop is probably the dealer. And, if they seem shaky, maybe open a case with Nissan Corporate EV Customer Support : (877) NO GAS EV (or 877-664-2738)

What was your mileage at 4BL?

I don't really know. I did not get to the point where the battery is at LB or VLB, or completely discharged. It has been more than week since the forth bar loss ; the gasometer shows 50-55 miles range on full charge. The first 4 bars disappeared yesterday after 9 miles only (avg. 40 mile/hr).

On 6/16/2015 I called Nissan Leaf customer support, opened a case and the agent, who was very supportive and promised 2015 heat resistant battery pack, connected me to the nearest dealership's service department (courtesy Nissan). The car spent close to three hours there on 6/17/2015. The supervisor told me that they ordered the parts and they will call me when they are in.
This afternoon, 6/18/2015, I got the call. The pack is in and the replacement is scheduled for tomorrow. Delivery will be on Saturday because the battery came fully discharged (that what they said).
I'm so excited and I hope the right pack is going to be installed.

 

[dhanson865]

My car lost its fourth bar @ 37.7K last week. The loss is consistent with previous years.
Has anyone in Texas replaced a degraded pack?

your first bar loss is already in the wiki, I added the 4th bar loss, can we get mileages to go with the dates for

Lost the second bar on 6/26/2013.
Lost the third bar on 6/17/2014.

Let me know if anything looks wrong on your 4th bar entry, and congrats on your new battery pack!

 

[dhanson865]

Lost bars:
Purchased
17 Jun 2011
1 - 02 May 2013 (+/- a week) 18,281
2 - 25 Aug 2013 (+/- a week) 20,529 - P3227
3 - 05 Oct 2014 28,480
4 - 14 Jun 2015 33,370


How do you update the wiki list?

Your 4 bar entry looks like this in code

|- style="background:#ffffff;" valign=top
| #30
| Jun 14, 2015
| occ
| Tustin, CA
| 33,370 miles
| ?? months
| mfg date
| 2011 model year
| 4873
|
|
| http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&start=7240#p427780" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

we need to change the mfg date line to say the mm/yyyy for when your car was built (from the driver door plate) and the number of months from then to date of loss (about 50 months or so?).

Then the other entries change the to be the next higher number for each section, change the date of loss below that, the miles at loss, the months at loss, and then you have to past that into the next section of the wiki.

All of that requires that you log into the wiki before you do it. If the instructions don't make sense you can just give me the update on your 4th bar entry and I'll propagate down the list for you.

oh and congrats on your new battery pack!

 

[dhanson865]

How do you update the wiki list?

Just another "club member" as local temperatures head up to the 100F's...

We lost our 4th capacity bar yesterday morning, 12 June 2015. Our dealer had a maintenance slot and personnel to take a look, confirmed the loss and got authorization to order the parts. We'll know next week when the parts will be in, and we have the car back to drive until everything arrives. Here's the car's Leaf DD details:
...
)

dhanson865 PMed me some instructions on updating the Wiki, but I haven't tried them yet. I'll forward them to you. Good luck!

let me know if the instructions didn't help, I can always put in your other entries.

 

[leafwing]

My car lost its fourth bar @ 37.7K last week. The loss is consistent with previous years.
Has anyone in Texas replaced a degraded pack?

your first bar loss is already in the wiki, I added the 4th bar loss, can we get mileages to go with the dates for

Lost the second bar on 6/26/2013.
Lost the third bar on 6/17/2014.

Let me know if anything looks wrong on your 4th bar entry, and congrats on your new battery pack!

The entry is correct.

 

[Roadburner440]

I am still waiting on my second bar to drop. LeafDD is reporting I have 74.6ish% Hx, and 52.4ahr capacity. Been that low for some time, and I know the capacity bars hang. I am hoping that since I am just 3 years, and a couple month in that I will make the battery capacity warranty. I have been making sure to charge it to 100% in the sun. :lol: Has been well over 90 here religiously lately. Unfortunately all the DCQC's around here are broken. Guess my official stats are as follows.

Date: 21 June, 2015
Miles: 32,200
Hx: 74.6%
Ahr: 52.4
Capacity Bars: 11
Miles till LBW: I usually get 62, but I have not done an official "test"
Countdown till out of battery warranty: 21 months / 27,800 miles

 

[linkim]

I am still waiting on my second bar to drop. LeafDD is reporting I have 74.6ish% Hx, and 52.4ahr capacity. Been that low for some time, and I know the capacity bars hang. I am hoping that since I am just 3 years, and a couple month in that I will make the battery capacity warranty. I have been making sure to charge it to 100% in the sun. :lol: Has been well over 90 here religiously lately. Unfortunately all the DCQC's around here are broken. Guess my official stats are as follows.

Date: 21 June, 2015
Miles: 32,200
Hx: 74.6%
Ahr: 52.4
Capacity Bars: 11
Miles till LBW: I usually get 62, but I have not done an official "test"
Countdown till out of battery warranty: 21 months / 27,800 miles

Here are my readings for a 2011 LEAF purchased in April 2011:
Date: 21 June, 2015
Miles: 27,672
Hx: 66.12%
Ahr: 53.92
Capacity Bars: 11

There is a difference in the trend of the readings between LEAFSpy (my reading) and LeafDD. You see higher Hx and lower Ahr than I do. I do not expect to lose 4 capacity bars to meet the goal of a receiving a free replacement battery.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I am still waiting on my second bar to drop. LeafDD is reporting I have 74.6ish% Hx, and 52.4ahr capacity. Been that low for some time, and I know the capacity bars hang. I am hoping that since I am just 3 years, and a couple month in that I will make the battery capacity warranty. I have been making sure to charge it to 100% in the sun. :lol: Has been well over 90 here religiously lately. Unfortunately all the DCQC's around here are broken. Guess my official stats are as follows.

Date: 21 June, 2015
Miles: 32,200
Hx: 74.6%
Ahr: 52.4
Capacity Bars: 11
Miles till LBW: I usually get 62, but I have not done an official "test"
Countdown till out of battery warranty: 21 months / 27,800 miles

Here are my readings for a 2011 LEAF purchased in April 2011:
Date: 21 June, 2015
Miles: 27,672
Hx: 66.12%
Ahr: 53.92
Capacity Bars: 11

There is a difference in the trend of the readings between LEAFSpy (my reading) and LeafDD. You see higher Hx and lower Ahr than I do. I do not expect to lose 4 capacity bars to meet the goal of a receiving a free replacement battery.

ya that sucks. is your low mileage due to modest needs or degradation reducing the car's usefulness? if its the latter, I might consider legal action for a replacement pack on that basis...