Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[RegGuheert]

]Just my luck that I am at about the same degradation level, 11%, but at 21 months of driving the car I don't figure to hit the magic 66.25% warranty level until ~63 months! Oh well, when first offered I never thought I'd be anywhere close to qualifying for the battery capacity warranty.

It does appear that our cars are on very similar trajectories. I'll keep a close eye on what you report. Please note that when jhm614 had his battery replaced, it was at 68.90% Ah and 69.4% GIDs. Just like the first bar disappears somewhat below 85% capacity, it appears that the fourth bar may disappear somewhat above 66.25%.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... Please note that when jhm614 had his battery replaced, it was at 68.90% Ah and 69.4% GIDs. Just like the first bar disappears somewhat below 85% capacity, it appears that the fourth bar may disappear somewhat above 66.25%.

It's a bit of a crap shoot to start declaring % of anything without specifically quantifying what that is.

In the case of jhm614, he had 42.56Ah before the firmware update, and 45.65Ah afterward.

Using 65.5Ah as the new reading, we get 64.97% to 69.69%

Using 66.25Ah as the new reading, we get 64.24% to 68.9%

 

[RegGuheert]

It's a bit of a crap shoot to start declaring % of anything without specifically quantifying what that is.

In the case of jhm614, he had 42.56Ah before the firmware update, and 45.65Ah afterward.

Using 65.5Ah as the new reading, we get 64.97% to 69.69%

Using 66.25Ah as the new reading, we get 64.24% to 68.9%

Fair enough.

But the main point that I wanted to make is that with the new firmware, he lost his fourth bar at 68.9% of 66.25%. This is very close to the 70% threshold that Nissan said they were targeting.

You are certainly correct in pointing out that there is some currently-unknown amount of variation on that. Perhaps we need to start tracking the Ah reading from the car at the time the fourth bar is lost so that we can learn what kind of range to expect.

 

[LEAFfan]

Just like the first bar disappears somewhat below 85% capacity, it appears that the fourth bar may disappear somewhat above 66.25%.

All the cars I've tested here and it has been many including my own, lost the first bar around 80-81% Gids. I already tested recently a 3-bar loss car that is around 65%. I believe they will lose their fourth CB around 61-62% Gids based on the % of the first bar losses.

 

[RegGuheert]

All the cars I've tested here and it has been many including my own, lost the first bar around 80-81% Gids. I already tested recently a 3-bar loss car that is around 65%. I believe they will lose their fourth CB around 61-62% Gids based on the % of the first bar losses.

Was that after the reprogramming?

 

[cyellen]

Lost my fourth bar on Friday morning...yee-hah! I needed to schedule the upgrade and battery check anyhow, so now I guess I can start the warranty process too.

Welcome 100% charging!

 

[dhanson865]

Lost my fourth bar on Friday morning...yee-hah! I needed to schedule the upgrade and battery check anyhow, so now I guess I can start the warranty process too.

Welcome 100% charging!

how many miles? (I put ??,??? in the wiki)

oh and your profile says you got the car in Mar 2011, I put 29 months for the 4 bar loss.

 

[myleaf]

Lost my fourth bar on Friday morning...yee-hah! I needed to schedule the upgrade and battery check anyhow, so now I guess I can start the warranty process too.

Welcome 100% charging!

Hi: Did you get the reprogramming done ?

 

[bowthom]

Sooooooo, I hooked up my Leaf DD today and my battery health was down to 87.7%. What?? It was 91.5% yesterday and 94.5% Friday (10/4) when I left the dealer with the charger reprogrammed. It was 91.8% when I dropped it off. My low cell #16 is reappearing also, it had joined the rest of the pack after the trip to the dealer.

 

[cyellen]

Apologies for not posting all the details...my mileage at fourth bar loss is 18942. I have not had the car reprogrammed.

 

[myleaf]

Apologies for not posting all the details...my mileage at fourth bar loss is 18942. I have not had the car reprogrammed.

Thanks for the info. Enjoy the new battery !

 

[GregH]

Sooooooo, I hooked up my Leaf DD today and my battery health was down to 87.7%. What?? It was 91.5% yesterday and 94.5% Friday (10/4) when I left the dealer with the charger reprogrammed. It was 91.8% when I dropped it off. My low cell #16 is reappearing also, it had joined the rest of the pack after the trip to the dealer.

I have yet to get the reprogramming done myself.. but it seems it takes a while for the new values (Ah capacity, "health" or Hx) to settle after the new software is installed. Curious to hear after a few more cycles how it goes... also do you note odd behavior in the Gids at low SOCs (ie below LBW/50 Gids)? This is the realm where large discrepancies between assumed and actual capacity would stand out.

 

[mwalsh]

I lost bar 12 today.....For the record, current mileage is 30,455. (6/23/13)

Bar 11 gone. Mileage 34,753. Will add myself to the Wiki in a while.

Can't get you CAP and HLTH until I get home tonight - noticed the loss when I hit the first traffic signal on the way to work this morning and was already late, so couldn't turn back for home.

 

[opencar]

wow, looks like stoaty's calendar degradation rate needs to change.....only 4K mi to lose the 2nd bar?

I lost bar 12 today.....For the record, current mileage is 30,455. (6/23/13)

Bar 11 gone. Mileage 34,753. Will add myself to the Wiki in a while.

Can't get you CAP and HLTH until I get home tonight - noticed the loss when I hit the first traffic signal on the way to work this morning and was already late, so couldn't turn back for home.

 

[mwalsh]

wow, looks like stoaty's calendar degradation rate needs to change.....only 4K mi to lose the 2nd bar?

On the plus side...I'm that much closer to a replacement pack. And if all else is favorable (weather, pack balance, traffic, etc...), at 10 bars I can still get 68 miles* out of the car on my (almost all highway) commute. So it's still working for me, bearing in mind the commute is 61 miles. This winter will be interesting though!

*Better make that a theoretical 68 miles, based on Gid counts.

 

[GregH]

wow, looks like stoaty's calendar degradation rate needs to change.....only 4K mi to lose the 2nd bar?

Dang! and right on the cusp of cooler weather.. Since we've seen Ah capacity sometimes go up a tad when things cool down do you think we'd ever see a capacity bar re-appear? Probably way too much hysteresis for that...

 

[smkettner]

Bar 11 gone. Mileage 34,753.

Compared to me... A few less miles and a little more time. Might be typical for OC.

10 bars still holding at 40,000 and 28 months. Looking for #10 to drop before 45,000 to have a shot at the warranty.

 

[JeremyW]

I've noticed as I get closer to losing my first bar that regen is more limited at higher SOC. I was cruising this morning and I only had one regen circle at 191 gids! Battery temperature was 20 c. If I flog it on the freeway I typically won't get all my regen circles till nearly 50% SOC! Anyone else with significant capacity loss notice this?

 

[WetEV]

wow, looks like stoaty's calendar degradation rate needs to change.....only 4K mi to lose the 2nd bar?

Seasonality.

Look in the Wiki, this is not new.

Much of the real calendar loss is in the heat of summer, and the instruments seem to read lower capacity at higher temperature.

 

[RegGuheert]

Since we've seen Ah capacity sometimes go up a tad when things cool down do you think we'd ever see a capacity bar re-appear? Probably way too much hysteresis for that...

There was one report of that. I think it was a few pages back in this thread...