Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[Stoaty]

Results of my repeat range test posted in this thread:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=7928&start=23" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Herm]

I wonder what would happen when you no longer make the commute and start calling for a tow once a week, twice a week, 5 days a week. PITA but still.

It would be considered abuse of the towing service.. you must admit xtremeflyer has an unusually long commute for a car that is rated at 76 miles of range.. plus the daily nearly full cycles cant be healthy for the battery.. he still has about 20% reserve when he gets home, and Nissan only charges up to 95%, thus a 75% SOC total daily cycle... probably that battery will last 1500-2000 cycles if all goes well.

Xtremeflyer, what is your long term efficiency?

 

[opossum]

We now have two different news stations in Phoenix planning to do interviews Wednesday on the Leaf fiasco. Azdre and I are going to meet with one station. WiltedLeaf will be meeting with the other station. If there are any other Leaf owners in the valley who want to talk to a reporter about the lack of response from Nissan and the worsening range issue, PM me and WiltingLeaf.

 

[wiltingleaf]

Please PM me if you are interested in talking to a reporter tomorrow afternoon around 4pm. We're tentatively scheduled right now for meeting at PADT (http://goo.gl/maps/2NGUU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. If things change, I'll post it here.

 

[xtremeflyer]

Xtremeflyer, what is your long term efficiency?

I tend to get 4.8mi/kW on the dash.

Although it's a "relatively long commute", When I went to the Leaf Drive events and told them my commute was 80 miles RT, they said no problem. When I did the little questionaire on the Leaf website and put that I have an 80 mile commute, it said "you are a perfect candidate" for the Leaf. I understand that was all marketing fluff, but at the same time, I admittedly made the assumption that Nissan would underestimate things like this, not overestimate so they wouldn't get themselves in trouble later on. Obviously I was wrong on that. 80% of my days I get to plug in for 3 hours at 120V (I am today), so I almost never have a problem, it's mostly Fridays that are the issue. I also have a lot less miles than a lot of other drivers and I'm right within my 15k imles/yr lease. So nothing should be "unusual" about my usage of the vehicle.

 

[GeekEV]

We now have two different news stations in Phoenix planning to do interviews Wednesday on the Leaf fiasco. Azdre and I are going to meet with one station. WiltedLeaf will be meeting with the other station. If there are any other Leaf owners in the valley who want to talk to a reporter about the lack of response from Nissan and the worsening range issue, PM me and WiltingLeaf.

Sigh. And there goes the public perception of electric cars - right out the window. I hope you guys are happy... You couldn't give Nissan a bit more time? How quickly do you expect a large multinational company to operate?

 

[wiltingleaf]

GeekEV, If Nissan would just acknowledge that they have an issue and work with our community to find a fix to the problem vs. just completely ignoring the issue and telling us our cars are "performing as designed", we would not need to go to these extremes. I LOVE my Leaf except for that I am now getting a largely reduced range than when I bought the car nearly 15 months ago. I really wish it did not need to come to this either, but when a company refuses to listen to their customers, they deserve to get bad press. I understand your viewpoint, but I assume you haven't lost 3 bars of battery yet either.

 

[mynameisjim]

We now have two different news stations in Phoenix planning to do interviews Wednesday on the Leaf fiasco. Azdre and I are going to meet with one station. WiltedLeaf will be meeting with the other station. If there are any other Leaf owners in the valley who want to talk to a reporter about the lack of response from Nissan and the worsening range issue, PM me and WiltingLeaf.

Sigh. And there goes the public perception of electric cars - right out the window. I hope you guys are happy... You couldn't give Nissan a bit more time? How quickly do you expect a large multinational company to operate?

I feel about 1 month to respond about the testing is a good time frame. In the mean time, ask your executives to refrain from saying "we don't have a battery problem"

 

[TickTock]

We now have two different news stations in Phoenix planning to do interviews Wednesday on the Leaf fiasco. Azdre and I are going to meet with one station. WiltedLeaf will be meeting with the other station. If there are any other Leaf owners in the valley who want to talk to a reporter about the lack of response from Nissan and the worsening range issue, PM me and WiltingLeaf.

Sigh. And there goes the public perception of electric cars - right out the window. I hope you guys are happy... You couldn't give Nissan a bit more time? How quickly do you expect a large multinational company to operate?

I hear you but we all have different patience levels. Mine hasn't run out yet but I don't hold it against those who have. I don't think the public is as fickle as you think, though. Anyone who will take these interviews to mean that EV's are bad already had their mind made up and were just looking for justification. Those folks on-the-fence and considering when the right time to buy are probably more rational and frankly deserve to know where the current state-of-the-art sits to help them make a good decision. The last thing we want is a lot of people buying Leafs uninformed - we'll just end up with that many more upset people 12 months from now.

 

[Stoaty]

Sigh. And there goes the public perception of electric cars - right out the window. I hope you guys are happy... You couldn't give Nissan a bit more time? How quickly do you expect a large multinational company to operate?

I think Nissan brought this on themselves. No doubt they knew of problems long before the capacity bar losses started being reported. I think they have had plenty of time to make some kind of announcement (besides "We have a better battery for the next model year.") that would satisfy Leaf owners. Hearing that Scott (4 bar loser) had to pay all the penalties for breaking his Leaf lease early doesn't give anyone a warm fuzzy feeling. Nissan is not (currently) standing behind the Leaf in the way most of us expected they would.

 

[opossum]

Sigh. And there goes the public perception of electric cars - right out the window. I hope you guys are happy... You couldn't give Nissan a bit more time? How quickly do you expect a large multinational company to operate?

And exactly how long do I keep a $35,000 paperweight in my garage while Nissan holds to the "your car is performing normally" statement? My car almost can't get my wife to work and back. How about yours? I've made literally dozens of calls to Nissan. How about you, buddy? Our car has been to dealerships about a dozen times. Yours? Towed twice. Yours? We have written letters. You? Shipped it to Casa Grande over a month ago. Have not heard ONE word about what they did or what they plan to do. We're close to having to buy another car. So I should just take one for the team, all in the name of the public image of EVs? Riiiiight...

 

[opossum]

We discovered loss of range over 4 months ago and started reporting it immediately to Nissan. OVER 4 MONTHS AGO. And based on the accounts of others in Phoenix with FAR fewer miles and FAR less range loss, if I were to take our Leaf to 10 car dealerships (Nissan and non-Nissan), it is almost a guarantee that I would get ZERO purchase or trade-in offers. ZERO.

So... GeekEV... want to repurchase my Leaf? I'll make you a deal. $30,000 even.

 

[Volusiano]

Sigh. And there goes the public perception of electric cars - right out the window. I hope you guys are happy... You couldn't give Nissan a bit more time? How quickly do you expect a large multinational company to operate?

This should influence the public perception of how badly Nissan backs up its own electric car. It shouldn't influence the public perception of electric cars in general. There are other players in the game, GM, Mitsubishi, Tesla, Ford, etc.

 

[davewill]

Sigh. And there goes the public perception of electric cars - right out the window. I hope you guys are happy... You couldn't give Nissan a bit more time? How quickly do you expect a large multinational company to operate?

Not fair. These guys have been taking one for the team for quite some time. Besides, Nissan could reach out tomorrow and give some sort of reassurance if they cared about "public perception".

 

[sethr]

It seems to me that as long as those who speak in public clearly point out that it is the lack of a TMS in the Leaf that is the problem (and that nearly all the other EVs out there have one); the public should not reach the conclusion that there is a problem with EVs, just that Nissan had poor judgment both in making the Leaf without a TMS and in not responding to the result of their error.

 

[JRP3]

Actually I would not specifically blame the lack of a TMS, since some chemistry does not necessarily need a TMS. Rather it's a combination of cell chemistry choice and the lack of a TMS. I expect future chemistry advances to reduce need for a TMS, such as A123's EXT chemistry. I know of a 2 year old conversion using LiFePO4 in CA that has over 35K miles and no noticeable loss in range, no TMS. I'd just hate to see the idea that a car without a TMS is "bad" when it may not always be the case.

 

[cwerdna]

Actually I would not specifically blame the lack of a TMS, since some chemistry does not necessarily need a TMS. Rather it's a combination of cell chemistry choice and the lack of a TMS. I expect future chemistry advances to reduce need for a TMS, such as A123's EXT chemistry. I know of a 2 year old conversion using LiFePO4 in CA that has over 35K miles and no noticeable loss in range, no TMS. I'd just hate to see the idea that a car without a TMS is "bad" when it may not always be the case.

Where in CA? Are they in a cool climate like SF that might seem temps of 60s or 70s F when the South Bay hits 90+, on the same day? Or, are they in a hot climate like Palm Springs or Death Valley?

 

[JRP3]

SF, so yeah, cooler, but I also know of another LiFePO4 conversion in Reno that's coming up on three years, not sure of the mileage, and the batteries have heating for the winter but no cooling for the summer. No reported capacity loss.

 

[davekern]

Here's the latest. My wife had to stop by the Nissan dealer for a charge last week because of the dropping range (continues to drop significantly). She estimated poorly... Anyway, while she was there she asked someone at the dealer (Mossy Nissan) about the capacity loss. He asked her some questions and then looked over the car. Then he said, What do you expect, you 1) drive on the freeway, 2) use the A/C and 3) charge to 100% and not 80%. I guess they consider using the car like this to be abusing the car. Sad... They want me to use the car like a golf cart around town. That's not what I was told when I bought the car.

 

[GeekEV]

For the record, I have no issue with Nissan getting slammed. I know the general public SHOULDN'T take as an indictment of EVs in general, but odds are there's plenty of people who will. It's just sad is all. I suppose I should have left out the "hope your happy" remark.