opossum said:
This was regarding my "10 people I know" sample in Phoenix...
Please report if the other 6 with bar losses also spent very large amounts of time at 100% charge, as your LEAF has, and/or also have the same high miles, that your car has.
Haven't we already beat that to death? I believe they all had 8,000 to 20,000 miles. Some exclusively charged to 80% and never or almost never fast charged. One even air conditioned his garage.
Sorry, but I think we are getting a bit crazy with the amount of data we are trying to collect. Many of the cars in my sample and in the wiki tables are owned by people who are not on the forum, and I've just about reached the limit of how many times I will bug people for more details. I'm going to at least wait until Nissan returns the Casa Grande cars and see what they say.
Please attribute all quotes, and post a link to the source, for context.
azdre/opossum.
I think you have damaged your own credibility, with your 7/30 edit to your post starting this thread:
EDIT: 7/30/2012
Summary of thread: This is definitely a problem in hot climates. There appears to be NO correlation to car color, air conditioned garages, 80% charging, driving efficiency, miles driven, quick charging, or anything else beside outside ambient temperature. In other words, cars are being treated exactly as outlined in the owner's manual. We personally know at least a dozen leaf owners, many not mentioned below that have lost at least 15% capacity. According to the ScanGuage, the 2 that haven't lost one, are in the 80's and will be losing one soon. Nissan still claims this is normal, gradual loss and not covered under warranty. Phoenix has now seen up to 30% loss in one year, 25,000 miles of driving.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
IMO, it is fairly certain that the factors that we all expected to lead to more rapid capacity degradation, battery temperature, amount of use of the high and low end of battery capacity, and amount of time spent at high and low charge level, are all now showing up in loss of capacity bars, and gid/SOC reports.
The only unexpected result, is the relatively rapid loss of bars and gids on some LEAFs, and the very high correlation with operation in hot climates.
However, at least some of the loss of SOC/gids, seems likely to not be due to battery degradation, but by other temporary factors, perhaps due to the BMS limiting the charge level. IIRC, no one one this forum foresaw the possibility of adaptive charge limiting for LEAF batteries in hot climates. Maybe this is why what seems to be likely evidence of BMS operation, doesn't seem to be sinking in.
The only comprehensive observation of gid levels in a hot climate, over last year, by TickTock seems to show that much of his capacity deficiency last Fall, was recovered over the Winter, and much of the previously lower capacity was probably never due to “battery degradation” at all.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An7gtcYL2Oy0dHNwVmRkNkFnaEVOQTVENW5mOTZlb0E&pli=1#gid=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
However, the ob
served reduction in capacity caused by the behaviors below, leaving the battery at high SOC for long periods, or habitually running the battery down to very low capacity, probably is due to
permanently degraded battery capacity.
azdre
Let's see if I can answer all of your questions:
* We always charge to 100% (we drive it a lot, 17,000 miles in 14 months of driving).
* We do 'top it off' a lot. That's the one item we got 4/5 stars on the battery check in March 2012.
* The car sat at 100% for a month in May, 2011, not plugged in.
* It's almost always garaged or in covered parking.
* We get the low battery warning about once a month.
* Never turtled. Been meaning to try this out though.
* We've QC'd 2-3 times this spring.
* There's been no error messages (aside from the A/C fiasco last summer, please don't make me relive that one.)
* My husband is a nut about keeping the tire pressure monitored and consistant.
* I'll pull the carwings data and add it to here tonight.
I'm thinking I should take it in to the dealer for some documentation even if they turn me away initially.
Last edited by azdre on Wed May 09, 2012 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&start=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
TonyWilliams
My update on the red 2011 LEAF, serial #2244
I called and reported my car today. I've lost 15-18% capacity (as measured in actual performance; not the insane GuessOmeter, CarWings, or other methods), however the car still has all 12 capacity bars. I expect that first 15% loss of capacity bar to disappear any day. I no longer own it....
The car was never exposed to exceptionally hot climates, and probably only saw temps over 90F a few times. It was never left at 100% charge for any length of time. For storage, it was left at 50%. It frequently used the entire capacity of its battery to complete 2000 miles per month. It experienced turtle mode about 20 times...
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&start=2190" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
By collecting more accurate reports of use, we can find out if this is what is actually occurring.
You could contribute by explaining your own use in more detail.
Looks like you have been driving about 1800 miles per month over this Summer, with your range now significantly limited by lower available battery capacity.
What are your usual high and low charge levels and charging/recharging practices?
How hot is it typically, while your LEAF is parked?
Seems like a hot-climate LEAF owner could do the worst damage, and/or limit charge levels most severely, by driving and recharging during the heat of the day, then preventing battery cooling at night, by parking in a hot and poorly vented garage.
