CA AB475 requires connection to the EVSE to avoid cite/tow

[Yodrak]

Maybe it is connected - to a charger on the left side of the vehicle?

And in this photo... the EV on the left would be ticketed/towed, since it is not --gasp!-- connected.

 

[Yodrak]

Yes, so the best place for the charging stations is where the power source to the building is. For a mall this might be somewhere out around the edge of the parking lot. For stand-alone buildings, or for stripmalls, it might be somewhere on the back side of the buildings. It will usually not be in front near the entrance.

Putting the charging stations in 'convenient' locations gives added temptation to ICErs to use the spots in hopes of not getting caught. Putting them out in left field or around back may be an inconvenience to the EVer, but then - how bad do you need a charge on this visit? And hey, a little walking is good exercise that most people who try to avoid it really need!

Another problem with the back of the parking lot is that the electrical connections usually originate from the building. The farther away from the source, the more difficult and costly the installation.

 

[Yanquetino]

Maybe it is connected - to a charger on the left side of the vehicle?

:lol: Good speculation...! But only what the photo actually shows would be acceptable evidence in court.

 

[Yanquetino]

Yes, so the best place for the charging stations is where the power source to the building is.

Do you think? I might be naïve, but I would assume an EVSE should be connected through a breaker box, with an appropriate breaker --like mine is at home. I doubt my local code would allow me to connect my EVSE directly to the power source to my home (the transformer on my cul-de-sac), but rather from it (via the breaker box).

Of course, I've never really examined the electrical panels at a mall, but it would frankly surprise me if they were at the edge of its parking lot. To put them there, my guess is that they'd have to install a separate meter and breaker box for the EVSEs on the perimeter. Maybe...? But at added expense, since the mall's main meters and panels would probably be in the building...? :?

 

[garygid]

Presumably, since these parking spaces are not marked as
"Charging" spaces (in any visible way), AB475 would not apply.

 

[DaveEV]

I have sent emails to the governor urging him to veto AB 475 along with similar emails to my representatives.

What I sent to the governor:

Re: Veto AB 475

I was disappointed to read that AB 475 has reached your desk for signing after learning that this bill only creates more problems than it solves. Key issues with this bill:

1. Does not prevent non plug-in vehicles from plugging in. One could park their gas-only vehicle in and trickle charge their 12V battery legally according to the bill.

2. No sharing. With limited charging infrastructure, it is very common for people to share charging stations from adjacent parking spots. People will leave a note saying when it's OK to un-plug their car along with contact details - someone parking in an adjacent spot can read the note and remove the plug if appropriate and plug their own car in.

Plug-in advocate Chelsea Sexton has written a very good summary of the issues of this bill here: http://www.plugincars.com/gm-sponsors-bill-creates-problems-electric-car-charging-107641.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I highly recommend vetoing this bill as is - it should be sent back for amendments or rewritten completely.

Use this form to look up contact info for your representatives: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/yourleg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[evchels]

Presumably, since these parking spaces are not marked as
"Charging" spaces (in any visible way), AB475 would not apply.

Actually, the vast majority of charging stations that are marked as for EV charging only (or some variation) don't use this law. Those that do actually have to warn of towing, where the vehicle can be retrieved, etc.

 

[rawhog]

.

 

[evchels]

So, take a picture of your car plugged in with time and date stamp. If you get ticketed etc. Use the photo as evidence that you were plugged in and person unknown unplugged your car without your consent or knowledge. If the courts start seeing this happen, someone will end up fixing the situation that they choose to turn a blind eye to. Maybe?

Unfortunately, you can't prove the "without your knowledge" part. I see the reverse as just as likely- that parking enforcement will end up taking a pic to prove the car wasn't plugged in (a la red light cameras) and you have to try to prove otherwise or how that happened.

Just silly when there's such an easy alternative.

 

[Yodrak]

Agreed. And this photo does not show that the car is not connected.

Maybe it is connected - to a charger on the left side of the vehicle?

:lol: Good speculation...! But only what the photo actually shows would be acceptable evidence in court.

 

[Yodrak]

Agreed

Yes, so the best place for the charging stations is where the power source to the building is.

Do you think? I might be naïve, but I would assume an EVSE should be connected through a breaker box, with an appropriate breaker --like mine is at home.

You might be right about where the existing stuff is. And if there is enough extra capacity in those panels for the number of charging stations being considered, you have a good point. But if there isn't enough capacity, or if they want to meter the charging usage separately from the tenants' usages or from the general mall usage for whatever reason, putting meter and breaker boxes at the mall substation wouldn't be difficult and might be less expensive than doing the same at the the service entrance to the building. Further, the mall substation just might be adjacent to the mall building in some obscure spot rather than across the parking lot.

My company is presently installing about a dozen EV charging stations. On the far side of one of the parking lots where the substation that feeds the building is.

In any event, where the substation is (if the facility is large enough to have primary service) and where the existing panels are is not where the prime parking spots are. Pretty much the opposite, in fact.

Of course, I've never really examined the electrical panels at a mall, but it would frankly surprise me if they were at the edge of its parking lot. To put them there, my guess is that they'd have to install a separate meter and breaker box for the EVSEs on the perimeter. Maybe...? But at added expense, since the mall's main meters and panels would probably be in the building...? :?

 

[evchels]

For those of you on fb, there's been a thread on this sitting on the Chevy Owners' page that just became active. And Shad the pr rep handling this for GM, has been joining here and there as well.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/chevyvoltowners/?view=permalink&id=265530193459613" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[rawhog]

.

 

[evchels]

Neither can they prove it was not. Reasonable doubt?

Too soon to say...it's just not something I want to have to trust.

 

[garygid]

Does AB475 actually say that the Charging Space must be signed to warn of towing?
And, does it require the posting of what conditions will warrant towing?

 

[evchels]

Does AB475 actually say that the Charging Space must be signed to warn of towing?
And, does it require the posting of what conditions will warrant towing?

Yes. This is the specific language in the statute:

(d) The posting required for an offstreet parking facility owned
or operated either privately or by a local authority shall consist of
a sign not less than 17 by 22 inches in size with lettering not less
than one inch in height that clearly and conspicuously states the
following: "Unauthorized vehicles not connected for electric charging
purposes will be towed away at owner's expense. Towed vehicles may
be reclaimed at
_________________________________or by telephoning
(Address)
_______________________________________________.''
(Telephone number of local law enforcement agency)

You can also imagine how the "connected for charging purposes" is vague enough to be gameable.

 

[walterbays]

For those of you on fb, there's been a thread on this sitting on the Chevy Owners' page that just became active. And Shad the pr rep handling this for GM, has been joining here and there as well.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/chevyvoltowners/?view=permalink&id=265530193459613" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's for Volt owners only. Others may not comment, so I commented instead on the forum which is open. http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread...ting-and-Who-is-Responsible&p=84079#post84079 And I do still count myself as a fan of the Volt, if not so much a fan of GM. :-(

 

[VikeKen]

Another issue with close proximity of charging station spots is that I believe that EV chargers need to be ADA compliant. If the chargers were placed far from a business, etc... handicapped EV users would be limited in access.

I read about this somewhere maybe in the COSTCO thread. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

 

[TEG]

Regarding ADA confirmation:

http://www.bcd.oregon.gov/bldg_newsletter/vol03_no11.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.miamidade.gov/derm/climatechange/library/meeting_documents_2010/ada_guidelines.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://chargedsv.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Accessible_Electric_Vehicle_Charging_Station-EV_Symposium_5.31.rg6-1final.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[mwalsh]

Bump! Still time to write the Gov and ask for a veto! :idea: