Buying a Leaf in the EAST? Some things you should know

[mctca]

We live in NJ & we LEASED our 2012 LEAF in September. We now have 3000+ miles on the vehicle. We begin do research on the LEAF before it was in the US. All advertisements for the vehicle were for 100+ miles/charge. We test drove the LEAF & were told the same thing. Dealers verified the same information, but I found that most dealers new nothing about the vehicle. When we first started using the vehicle our range was very low 45 to 50 miles/charge. What we learned was that you cannot drive this vehicle like a normal gasoline vehicle.
Things we have learned
1) Never use the Heat or AC ( we new this & we never did, during the winter it was in the 20's, we were never in the vehicle that long to be concerned)
2) This vehicle is for LOCAL use only. There is ONE charging station in NJ, other than Nissan dealers.
3) Our average speed in the vehicle per charge is 18-24mph, if you drive it fast your range will decrease very quickly.
4) If the vehicle encounters an INCLINE the range is effected very quickly, on a HILL forget it!
5) Never use the ECCO mode, it never helped improve the range. You will do better by using pedal management.
Using all of the above we have improved our range to 70+ miles/charge. That is the EPA average, no one ever mentioned the EPA average when we were shopping, especially the dealer. Every time we asked the range question it was 100+ miles. I believe I might be able to get 100 miles/charge if I lived in an area where there were no INCLINES.
At present the only EV that can meet normal driving requirements is the TESLA, thats if you want to spend $70,000 to $100,000.
For Northeast drivers it should be buyer beware. The LEAF is strictly a local vehicle
You might ask why we leased the vehicle if we are so critical. We switched from a PRIUS which was very uncomfortable to drive. For me the LEAF is roomy there is not much I don't like about. The exterior & interior are great, I just can't get around the range issues & the fact that it was advertised as 100+ miles/charge. My hope is that by the time my lease is over the range will have improved & of course that we get some charging stations in the Northeast.

 

[Reddy]

Good summary for the "average" American driver. Not very many in the 100 mile club, so yes, it's difficult. I'm #23, but that was my first summer. I doubt I'll do it again, or need to either, because as you said, it's a great in-town car. Not everyone (even in WA) has access to a quick charge station. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=154572#p154572

 

[apvbguy]

At present the only EV that can meet normal driving requirements is the TESLA, thats if you want to spend $70,000 to $100,000.
For Northeast drivers it should be buyer beware. The LEAF is strictly a local vehicle

You wrote a good synopsis of your experiences with your LEAF and maybe the LEAF is not the vehicle for you. I want to take you to task for generalizing, what is NORMAL for you is not always applicable to anyone but you.
In my short time with my LEAF and driving what is NORMAL for me the car and it's range or lack thereof is just fine, I knew it's limitations going in and I am ok with the car's abilities.

For drivers anywhere your warning is applicable, it is a car that excels in local usage, if you want to do regular 65-75 mile plus trips away from your home base charging unit. you will need to allow extra time for intermediate charging sessions.

It is too bad that you are disappointed with your LEAF.

 

[mctca]

I love the vehicle & the concept, the marketing was "Bull" & the Dealers know nothing about the vehicle.
Those are my problems. I knew I would have issues with charging, but I would love to drive it 100 miles (Philadelphia) charge up & go home

 

[EvansvilleLeaf]

Generalizing too much here. I've never seen under 55 on a 80% charge, even with heater use in single digit weather. I cannot imagine what conditions would get 45 on 100%. Stuck in deep snow with full heat in stop and go highway jams perhaps? I'm nobody's idea of a great hypermiler either, just a sensible driver who doesn't accelerate all the way to a red light and then slam on the brakes like most people, preferring to coast when feasible long before I even knew about the Leaf let alone bought one. That was the "normal" car driving style I always had. I've been shaking my head at bad "normal" habits since before the EV1.

While others say it's not universal quite, the dealer had most of us, me included, sign a sheet which spelled out different ranges under different conditioms in black and white, including the 42 miles of winter traffic jam IIRC. Do you remember if you did?

I suspect that you may be paying too much attention (which is frankly, more than a few seconds' passing thought) to the bloody useless guessometer miles, which simply extrapolate your current experience. Inclines drop this rapidly because the computer assumes you will continue being on an incline. Since Pikes Peak is too far west of you, this is highly unlikely to be what your future holds.

Of course it's a local car as opposed to a long haul tourer, but since the vast majority of all drivers average less than 40 miles per day, its ability to do twice that when driven sensibly means it matches the needs of about 2000 times the number of people who have got one so far.

 

[apvbguy]

I love the vehicle & the concept, the marketing was "Bull" & the Dealers know nothing about the vehicle.
Those are my problems. I knew I would have issues with charging, but I would love to drive it 100 miles (Philadelphia) charge up & go home

I'd love to find a million dollars under my pillow, but that is way beyond the tooth fairy's cash capacity.
It appears to me that the LEAF wasn't the vehicle for you.
if you expected that kind of range you didn't read any reviews from the automotive web sites.
the car was not marketed by Nissan as having that kind of range and if you believe one word that a car salesman says, I've got this bridge to show you.
I am sorry that the car isn't fulfilling your desires, it must suck to be in your shoes.
Next time do the required due diligence before plunking down the dollars.

 

[Nubo]

Even though Nissan might have used the 100 mile example too liberally, in my experience their official documents did not portray a guaranteed 100 miles, they gave different examples of ranges under varied conditions. This was well before I got a LEAF in late 2011.

No doubt some overeager guides at a TOUR event, or salespeople may still be throwing that number about. That is a problem but seriously who doesn't do some research before buying a car in this day and age when the info is at our fingertips?

Pleading ignorance about the EPA rating while shopping seems suspect as well. It's prominently displayed on the sticker.

Not to mention the several-pages of disclaimers and information you are required to sign before purchasing that addresses battery range issues!

The LEAF obeys the same laws of physics as any other car. Hills take energy. The distance-to-empty meter is based on recent driving and yes it will drop quickly on hill; it's assuming you'll keep going up hill continually. The idiosyncrasies of the "guess o meter" are annoying but one gets used to it quickly.

Seriously, this seems more like the kind of troll post you'd see somewhere trying to convince non-owners. As someone who has lived with the car for a year most of this seems overblown and cherry-picked to present in the worst possible light. I'm not buying it and it has nothing to do with the "EAST".

 

[apvbguy]

Seriously, this seems more like the kind of troll post you'd see somewhere trying to convince non-owners.

you may have nailed it

 

[cwerdna]

Tony, I and others have been pretty unhappy about the BS "100 mile" figure that reps at auto shows were telling people last year. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

And there's this report of "102 miles" from a dealer at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11867" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. :roll:

There was another thread (which I can't find right now) were a semi-recent (in the past 6 months or so, I think) potential buyer was fed total BS by a dealer re: range.

 

[Herm]

The Leaf is not a 100 mile car if you get on the hwy, its not really a hwy cruiser but because it sells well in the Land of Highways (CA) people get confused.. Nissan could have done a lot to alleviate this range anxiety issue, like limiting the top speed to 60mph.. that is way more than enough for city driving... perhaps make the dash flash red once you exceed 60.. even the motor/tranmission were optimized for much lower speeds

 

[apvbguy]

like limiting the top speed to 60mph..

I beg to differ with this opinion, I for one would never buy a car with such limitations. I know the car has range limitations and I accept them ( I have a LEAF) however if the car was limited from performing like any other car then to me that isn't a car, it is a novelty and we have long passed the novelty stage in EV.
Maybe a visual or audible sound when you exceed a predetermined speed would work for those who need that kid of discipline bit to cripple the car with a speed governor just wouldn't do.

 

[Nubo]

Tony, I and others have been pretty unhappy about the BS "100 mile" figure that reps at auto shows were telling people last year. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

And there's this report of "102 miles" from a dealer at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11867" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. :roll:

There was another thread (which I can't find right now) were a semi-recent (in the past 6 months or so, I think) potential buyer was fed total BS by a dealer re: range.

I agree it's a problem, but it's more a matter of disappointing prospective buyers when they learn the truth.

However, I find it hard to believe anyone would find themselves sitting down to sign papers still holding that misconception. The EPA rating is right on the sticker. AND, as far as I know, you have to ACKNOWLEDGE range and battery details with your signature before you complete the transaction.

 

[cwerdna]

AND, as far as I know, you have to ACKNOWLEDGE range and battery details with your signature before you complete the transaction.

IIRC, there have been reports of some buyers/lessees of new Leafs who somehow weren't presented the disclosure and required to sign it. I unfortunately can't find the posts right now.

For people buying used Leafs, all bets are off.

 

[Publius]

AND, as far as I know, you have to ACKNOWLEDGE range and battery details with your signature before you complete the transaction.

IIRC, there have been reports of some buyers/lessees of new Leafs who somehow weren't presented the disclosure and required to sign it. I unfortunately can't find the posts right now.

For people buying used Leafs, all bets are off.

I am pretty certain that I did not sign a disclosure. My salesman said that my LEAF would have a full tank of gas when I picked it up, so...

 

[cwerdna]

At present the only EV that can meet normal driving requirements is the TESLA, thats if you want to spend $70,000 to $100,000.
For Northeast drivers it should be buyer beware.

Rav4 EV (aka "poor man's Tesla") has pretty decent range (see bottom of http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/testing-electric-vehicles-in-the-real-world.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and below). Unfortunately, it's only a CA compliance car.

Tony Williams at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=240769#p240769" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; got 130 miles (including some 85 mph on the freeway driving) on his rental before he bought one. I don't know the route he took, but it looks like much/most (?) of it was highway driving.

It's $50K MSRP, but the $10K of So Cal incentives on the '12 Rav4 EV combined w/the $7500 Federal tax credit, $2500 CVRP (CA only) and dealer discounts makes it more palatable. Too bad the lease prices seem crappy.

I'd imagine Toyota will have to discount the '13s (which recently started arriving) a similar amount unless they went their sales to go into the toilet again.

 

[dgpcolorado]

There have been many complaints here at MNL about Nissan dealers and others using the bogus 100 mile range number. But anyone who did some homework would know what the real range is under various conditions. I agree with many of your observations but there are a couple that are off-base.

...4) If the vehicle encounters an INCLINE the range is effected very quickly, on a HILL forget it!

This is silly. Yes, the "Guess-o-Meter" (GOM) will show a rapid loss of "range" going uphill but those of us who live in the mountains learn to ignore it as being utterly useless. The LEAF is a fine mountain car with excellent uphill acceleration. The 2011/2012 models needed more regen braking for descents, but this was addressed on the 2013 models. One needs to consider hills when planning longer trips but that's also true for other conditions, such as weather or speed. I routinely make 65 mile trips in Winter in 20ºF weather with 2500 feet of elevation change. It isn't that big of a deal.

5) Never use the ECCO mode, it never helped improve the range. You will do better by using pedal management...

This is completely bogus. It is much easier to manage speed and driving efficiency in ECO because the pedal is mapped for power, as opposed to acceleration in D. If you hold a pedal position in ECO it will keep the same power level regardless of terrain or speed and that includes a zero power level that is equivalent to neutral. I would venture to guess that most of the hypermilers here use ECO most of the time.

Yes, the LEAF is intended as a short-range commuter car. No, it won't go 100 miles except at relatively slow speeds in moderate to warm weather—like some others here I've done 100+ miles a couple of times (with 2900 feet of elevation change in my case). But that's why the window sticker said 73 miles on the 2011/2012 models. That's a pretty good estimate of range but it will vary with speed and weather, much as gas mileage does on an ICE car.

 

[N952JL]

While others say it's not universal quite, the dealer had most of us, me included, sign a sheet which spelled out different ranges under different conditioms in black and white, including the 42 miles of winter traffic jam IIRC. Do you remember if you did?

I know of no dealer in Georgia that makes us sign a sheet spelling out different ranges under different conditions.

That asside the car is a local town car. As I tell everyone here in Warner Robins, the car is fine for 97% of all my trips, but only 70% of my yearly milage.

There are no QC's in middle GA yet, and only one or two L2 chargers outside of Nissan dealers. All but one recharge has been at home. My Leaf was the first in middle GA, the first reserved in Middle GA (Atlanta got the first delivery and no one has been able to say why), and was deliviered Dec 2011.

 

[KillaWhat]

As I tell everyone here in Warner Robins, the car is fine for 97% of all my trips, but only 70% of my yearly mileage.

This is a good quote, and pretty accurate.

Yes. I too researched this vehicle before it was offered here.
I ordered Mine in 2010, and was not told it would take me 2 years to get mine. Yes, I was told it would be a 100 mile car, and I HAVE made several trips where I went 100 miles. And no, they were not made driving like I would drive my Audi TDI. You have to really milk it.

I accept that this is a compromise vehicle. I am fortunate enough to have a medium sized grid tie Photovoltaic array that generates more than enough to break even on the operation of the car. Basically I drive for free. Even without it, at my $rate, it would cost about $.02 per mile.

My wife drives a TDI that gets 46 to 51 miles per gallon, and until we get VW Diesel Hybrids in THIS country, that's about the best we can do. I figure I save about $80 a week just on fuel, and oil changes on a TDI are not cheap, and neither is maintenance.
The Leaf fills 2 slots, and it fills them well.

Commuter: 50 to 55 miles round trip with no at work charging, and 100 mile round trip with assured charging at work.

Errand Mobile. Just a general driver. Go to the store, drive the kids to school, meetings, whatever. With 6.6Kw L2 charging and reasonable expectations, the Leaf satisfies 90% of around the area users. You can drive it down to 30% and have it back up to full in a couple hours.

And by the way, There are plenty of places to charge near you if you get in trouble. 1 in South Orange, 4 in Montclair, 2 right off of 10, 1 off 23 in Butler.

Anyway, I count 37 places to charge within 35 miles of Randolph. NJ.

That's a lot better than we have it here South of Philadelphia, but we PlugShare, and we get by.

There will be more and more as other manufacturers introduce their EV's.
All the Ford dealers, and all the Chevy dealers (most), and well as 90% of the Nissan dealers offer charging.

Get Plugshare if you don't have it. It helps quell the anxiety.
Just enjoy the Leaf for what it will do, and try not to obsess about what it will not do.

 

[teichholtz]

I'll agree that the Original poster is troll. I have just finished up my first month with my 2013 SL. After a few days I got over range anxiety. It was cold in the AM the first two weeks I had the car, sub 32 degrees. No heat? Pshaw, I had the heat on, heated leather seats on and cruising to work with the Opera station on XM. I have a 25 mile commute, I drive to work, charge at work (for free) and then drive home. I don't even bother charging at home. After 50 miles I have 40 to 45 % of the battery left.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Has the OP responded at all since the first post?

We can whine about range but we gotta stand in a pretty long line behind people whining about not getting 47 mpg in a C-Max or not getting 50 mpg in Civic Hybrid or not being able to effectively tow a 5,000 lb trailer in a Chevy Pickup or whatever.

In all those cases above, the cars actually do deliver what they promised...in very special circumstances maybe but that is besides the point. Auto Manufacturers have been stretching the truth for years so why stop now?

Is Nissan's 100 mile claim any worse? better? or is it just about the same as has been going on in the auto industry for decades?

FWIW I dont remember Ford putting out a chart saying the C- Max hybrid would only get 42 mpg if driven on the highway during Winter in a blizzard or that it would get 65 mpg if hypermiled at the local high school parking lot.

Nissan did put out a chart giving estimates of range in several various scenarios so I have to say that Nissan was MUCH more upfront than any other car manufacturer I have ever seen... well, at least in the one respect.

Now, most of you take the OP's post as being negative but he does say he likes several things about the car but the range is the only drawback which pretty much echoes just about everyone here. He has a different way of putting it but I dont consider this a "troll" or a slam on the LEAF...maybe more of a reality check than anything.

I will admit the title makes no sense at all

**edit** correcting a major "oopsie"...